WMH Season 5 Ep 4: Changing the Conversation around Mental Health and the Justice System

This is a transcript of Watching Mental Health Season 5, Episode 4 which you can watch and listen to here:

Katie: Hi, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Watching Mental Health. And I am so excited because today's episode is featuring Angel Lash, and I have known her out in the community doing amazing things for a long time. And so I'm just really excited to have her on the show today. And she's a passionate mental health advocate right here in Las Vegas who's spent over 15 years actually assisting adults and youth with mental health and addiction issues here in southern Nevada. And so from founding the Lash Impact Group to coordinating the Eighth Judicial District Court's Lima Diversion Program, Angel works at the Intersection of recovery, of housing, of justice reform every day. She is boots on the ground and she's an award-winning leader in the space and an advocate for better access to resources, affordable housing, and workforce development programs right here in Southern Nevada and with Southern Nevada's most vulnerable citizens. And so today we're going to be talking about mental health and the justice system, housing options in mental health, why that matters, right? and what mental health advocacy really does look like in the community with somebody who is in the community every single day showing up. And with that, welcome to the show, Angel.

Angel: Wow, thank you, Katie. That was such a warm introduction. I am excited for this conversation today. So thank you so much for inviting me on.

Katie: Absolutely. Yeah. And sometimes when you hear it back, you realize, wow, I've done a whole lot more than I realized, you know, because you're you're in it every day. It's kind of your day-to-day life. And so you don't quite realize, you know, how much I think you're making a difference sometimes. And I've and I can say that because of the list of awards that I have seen you get. And so I know that you're making a difference. but before we jump into any of that, I always like to start off by asking my guests, you know, to tell me a little bit about yourself, what brought you into working in this space? Because it can be challenged to work in this space. So why did you choose to work here? And especially not just in mental health, but at the intersection of mental health, justice, and housing.

Angel: Here's a really great question. I think this space chose me. I initially well, I'll start like this. I knew that I wanted to help people. I at a young age, I just had this really caring heart. My parents were lovers of people. And as a young kid, watching them take forever in grocery stores and any store, anywhere we went, talking to people, connecting with people, people being excited that they were in the space. And as a little kid you just wanna get in and get out. go play, right?

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Angel: And so, ironically, to literally embody my parents today with just wanting to connect with people, wanting to serve and trying to figure out in which ways I can do that, I started actually desiring to work in media. Like I wanted to do s actually music videos and documentary film. So my undergraduate degree is in film. But I did not have a lot of time to really practice that craft and I was a commuter student and working multiple jobs and athletics and things like that. So I didn't really get to hone in on that skill set. So when I did graduate with fine arts d with a fine arts degree, I decided to look into how can I go back to school for a helping profession. And at the time I didn't have a lot of guidance or mentorship around which pathway to choose, even which schools to choose. So I already lived in Las Vegas, so I decided I'll start here. with looking at options at UNLV. at the time I had a coworker that mentioned school counseling. She's like, I think you're pretty wise for your age. And this was like in my early twenties. And I was like, I don't know if I want to just be exclusive to school counseling. And I initially went to work with athletes. So I was like, I will study clinical mental health counseling, but I would the end result would be to work at a university and help with the athletic department. So I would be like an athletic advisor for students.

That was pretty much the pathway at the time. when I got into the clinical mental health program, I ended up get in placed at a organization that worked with people with substance misuse issues, housing issues and every other issue, that the vulnerable populations have experience with, they pretty much handled the gamut of it. And so with my placement there, I was actually not really sure what was gonna come of it, but I knew that, you know, I would learn a lot. That was kind of the mindset. Anyways, fast forward to one day with my little internship task, I had to give a bus pass to a gentleman who was sleeping under a bridge, who was in the intensive outpatient group for men, and he needed a bus pass. So he 'cause he was walking to group three times a week. But due to the fact that he was connected with this organization, they were able to give bus passes. They had a new batch come in, he was coming to get that bus pass, and it was really only a twenty four hour bus pass, but after giving him that bus pass, his response to me was life changing. I I

Katie: But

Angel: wish I could meet this man and let him know. But essentially what happened was, I greet him. I'm like, okay, I'm so excited. Here's your bus pass from your counselor. and we look forward to seeing you a group on Friday or whatever. And he was in tears. He was in tears. He was so grateful. He asked if he can give me a hug. He wanted to kiss my feet. He was like, I just Thank you so much. I have forty five days sober now is what he said. And he was just in joy. Just so much joy for having forty-five days sober. Not that he got housing, not that he, you know, got a new car, or he wasn't employed yet, but he had forty-five days sober. A bus passed to get back to his group and he was grateful. And it just put things in pers perspective for me. all the things I was complaining about, all the troubles of being a graduate student or whatever. and I decided these are my people. So from that day forward I ended up working with some of the most vulnerable people in our community since that day. but that was not the pathway that I thought that I would, you know, be pursuing and getting into my opportunities working within the justice system was even by chance. and so I won't go into that yet. I'll leave you with the fact that, you know, I thought I was pursuing being an athletic advisor and and not necessarily pursuing direct practice, overseeing programs and working with our vulnerable in our community. So but I'm I'm I think it chose me and I'm grateful for that.

Katie: Yeah. That's amazing. I just think that What a you know, what an amazing journey, right? I think that a lot of people maybe go into college not really sure or they, you know, they have one dream, but then they wind up leaving with another dream and one that really impacts their community. And so it sounds like, you know, that's really what what happened to you and part of that I think comes from your, you know, maybe the love that you have of your community of seeing people in these vulnerable positions, you know, improve. how long

Angel: yeah. I've been here since two thousand and eight. Yes, yes.

Katie: Okay, wow. So since we kinda fell down, Las Vegas really got hit hard by the by the financial crisis that year.

Angel: Yes, yes. I was I left I'm originally from Detroit, Michigan, and I left home in two thousand five. I lived in this little tiny town for a couple of years in Ridgecrest, California and I was an athlete, so I played basketball and I went to college there. And when I transferred to UNL V, partly from several teammates who suggested that, you know, I come here, it was cheaper, it was this well. We were young, so n not really understanding the financial crisis or what was happening. It was like, well, it's cheaper in Las Vegas and like you should go there and play. They need players or whatever. so that's how I initially came. I was pursuing, like I said, a fine arts film. I wanted to play basketball. The coat the coach at the time and I were talking. I had n not pursued some opportunities in California. It was a little more expensive and all my family was still on in mid in the Midwest. So I thought, well, I have a couple of teammates I know already. The cost of living is cheaper and so I'll go to UNLV. And when I when I got here, again, not understanding the climate of everything else,

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Angel: I decided to stay, finish school. I did not continue my collegiate basketball d d experience there, which left me a little salty for a little couple years. And then After being here for a while, I kind of fell in love with the people here in Las Vegas. And then I pursued another degree that kept me here longer, then licensure. And then fast forward here I am still in Las Vegas since 2008. My family likes.

Katie: Yeah, for sure. And you're you're still in Las Vegas really contributing to to the community

Angel: Thank you.

Katie: in so many ways. And you know, some people who were born and raised, right, are aren't necessarily doing that. And so with that, I wanna actually ask, you know, next is to talk to me a little bit more about the Lima Diversion program. What is that? And, you know, what do you what is your role within that program?

Angel: Absolutely can talk to you about that. That is pretty much my life today. so what that stands for is the law enforcement intervention for mental health and addiction diversion program. And that program is a partnership between Eighth Judicial District Court, which is my side, and then the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department. And we have two Lima officers assigned to support the program and more of a supervision mentorship type of role.

And so the way it looks is we have me coordinating the care for individuals who have they have identified the substances is an issue for them, whether it's drinking or illicit use, even marijuana use, right? They feel like their substance misuse issue is causing it a problem. And so they could either be referred to us through law enforcement contact where maybe they're committing a low level offense, or maybe it's a social interaction where law enforcement are in is engaging with someone maybe who's unhoused or through various circumstances and they have together identify diverting them out the system in lieu of arrest, in lieu of a citation, they can engage in a Lima program so they can get excuse me, connected to housing resources, treatment resources, support peer support services, being able to address their mental health crisis or issues and or be assessed to f identify if they're Are some underlying issues and we have them under our umbrella for nine to twelve months. So that's one route. And then we also support community partners who have individuals in their program, adults by the way, so they're 18 and up, who also believe that substances is a problem, their substance misuse issue is something they want to address. And now, as a community partner referral, these individuals should have a little bit more commitment that they've demonstrated through their work with that community partner. And the community partner and the client or potential client believe that the support from the Lima Divergent Program will be beneficial for their journey and recovery. And so if that all checks out, there are some background checks that our officers do to look for either patterns of violence, sex offenses, arson offenses, some of those things might be a challenge to the referral process. But if all that stuff checks out, they they get to choose to to come under our umbrella with this opportunity to let us serve them and build in their recovery. And so we work with pretty much anyone in the community that will help us help our clients. And that looks like again transitional housing.

So we have some contracts with some providers in the community to do to help us with that. We have various levels of treatment from residential level to the outpatient level where we can connect them to services directly. and then we have tracking through connections with these partners. So every month or excuse me, every week. We check with them during staffing, how they're doing, what they need. we do have quarterly in classroom style meetings with our clients versus in a courtroom setting. so that's where we check in with them. We may have a topic or guest speakers. we also highlight commitment of their peers so they can hopefully have some encouragement to follow suit and stay in alignment with the goals that they set out for themselves because it's very much client driven. in regards to what they desire to address. And so what I always let them know is there's five things we look for. And I think they're s simple, but it's not easy. Right. So number one,

Katie: Mm, mm.

Angel: being that all of them have a substance misuse issue of some kind, they're willing to go to the recommended level of care. And number two, they're willing to follow the rules wherever they're placed. So even if it's at their house, If there's not any guidelines established, they're open to allowing us to help them establish some sideboards that they can follow to keep them focused. number three, that they're willing to disengage from criminal activity. Sounds self explanatory. We're letting them know letting our clients know right now. We do not want you out there committing crimes, including panhandling, which I don't think is technically a crime, but we wanna help them address their needs in other pro social ways. number

Katie: Okay.

Angel: four, please. Do your best to disengage from substance use, illicit use, or marijuana and alcohol, and we include gambling with that. and ultimately, because we want them to give a chance to reset their brain and get back to the basics, right? Now, if they break all of those rules or they fall out of line with those things, they forgot that they committed to those things, we are not a one and done situation. So number five is most important.

Will you communicate with the Lima team? Who's your Lima team? our officers, your coordinator, and really to be honest, anyone in the community that know what Lima is and what we're about, they will help you get back to us if you have lost your way. And so we leave our clients open sometimes to give them a opportunity to make that decision, maybe for the second time or third time. so we don't try to find I guess ways to discharge them. We're looking at ways to keep them, ways to say yes. And so that's essentially what we do with the Lima program. And then some of like the core I guess principles behind that is we wanna break stigma in silos as well.

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Angel: We wanna break stigma about, you know, the judicial system and law enforcement in regards to helping people understand that we're here to support the community as well. We're community members supporting community members. And if people have bad experiences with those two agencies, then we wanna help them have a new experience. So we wanna show them we're here working for you to help you be successful with the goals that you set out. And so trying to help with some of the fear around, my gosh, it's the courts or it's the law enforcement affiliated program. I don't know about that. So we really work to build a rapport with them and trust. And then on the other side that we could help with maybe stigmas that come from just law enforcement work out there in the field and maybe some biases there or things that they might think are going on with all people with substance misuse issues or mental health issues. So we want them to see their recovery as possible as well so they can, you know, refer to the program the same with, you know, folks in the judicial system. so we work to break stigma on both sides and then and if with our community member at large as well, but also with the silos, we will work with anyone truly that want to help us support a Lima client. And so there's we have contracts but there's no I guess limit to who we can connect with that's willing to help, whether it's employment housing, childcare. we've had various small business owners who maybe do a haircut for a participant so they can look good on an interview or donate items for the person's new apartment they just r moved into. So we have various people in our community working to support this cause. It's a cause for all of us to get involved in, I believe.

Katie: Sure.

Angel: And so that's some of the I guess embedded core value in addition to what we do with our clients, we want to break the sigma and silos within

Katie: Yeah.

Angel: our work.

Katie: What an amazing program. it's I yeah, it's it's an amazing program. And I think that it is really powerful in its ability to, you know, bring these agencies out into the community and break that stigma. And because there has been a lot of stigma, and there has been a I think a lot of mistrust on both sides, right? From previous

Angel: Right.

Katie: actions, from other cities, from other counties, and all

Angel: Mm-hmm.

Katie: of that stuff, you know, stings and it does make an impact, but To show, you know, that there's this program that is really trying to help and is trying to kind of bring these agencies together with the community, I think is powerful. How long has the program been around for?

Angel: that is a great question. So we actually started in twenty twenty the Lima diversion program. Prior to that there were some work being there was some work being done on Metro site to do a similar diversion style program. but in twenty twenty was when Lima started and that was an interesting time. As you mentioned in two thousand eight was interesting, twenty twenty, the world shut down. and

Katie: There was.

Angel: Talk about stigma. There was a lot of stigma

Katie: Right.

Angel: with law enforcement and government agencies and a lot was happening in twenty twenty. So one thing that I always like to honor is our alumni, right? In twenty twenty, those who said yes to this brand new opportunity, no one ever heard of it. How's it

Katie: Wow.

Angel: gonna work? It's affiliated with maybe these agencies that wasn't so nice to me in the past or whatever their past experience was, and I'm gonna say

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Angel: yes to them helping me. And on top of that, we were all separate, so they didn't even really get to visit with us too much because at least for me specifically, I was a voice on a speaker doing assessments on the phone because

Katie: Yeah.

Angel: we weren't allowed to go meet people in person yet. And they still said yes. So

Katie: But

Angel: we have a twenty twenty six class, a twenty twenty six, you know, program because in twenty twenty, you know, people said yes. They showed that this opportunity could work for them. And all it was was the opportunity. So I always like to honor our Lima alumni leaders. I call leaders because now fast forward having multiple classes of graduates stay connected and give back to community together, I want them to embody leadership and showing how to lead themselves, lead their families, lead in their community away from the things that maybe brought them to the program and leading people to a different direction. So Yeah, we got to start this in twenty twenty, and here we are in twenty twenty six, still helping the people. And I was told that we are funded for twenty twenty seven, so we'll have another year to support our community with this program.

Katie: That's fabulous. and amazing that you know, you know, that you secured funding. I know it's a tough time for funding right now, but

Angel: Mm-hmm.

Katie: but I think it's so important to, you know, not only have this program, but to have these conversations and to really try to improve mental health within the justice system.

Angel: Yes.

Katie: And so talk to me a little bit more about that. Have you seen improvement? what does it look like here in Las Vegas and Nevada? And and what do you hope to see in the future as far as j the justice system and how it interacts with mental health.

Angel: Yeah, so I I won't say I'm the expert. I'm speaking for all just as involved individuals in that realm, but just to speak to some of the direct connection with participants of the Lima Diversion program, and some of the work I did when I was a drug court coordinator as well, I will say that over from twenty twenty to this point, there were an increase in individuals who will identify with having a co occurring issue and that being one being mental health and substance use disorder. so that's an increase, which maybe people are more willing to at least fight through the stigma about having a mental health condition and say, Yes, I do have this thing and I want to address it.

So we have had an increase in people identifying with that cross-sectionality of substance misuse issues, housing issues and mental health issues, and we on the Lima side specifically have seen people be more open. To take a medication for X amount of time to help them stabilize those symptoms. as they have gotten sober for longer periods of time. in the justice system, from my perspective as a whole, again, I think that might be universal to some of the other programs and specifically in our specialty court department, because of that, not sure which came first, the carp for the horse type of situation, we have a co-occurring program here with the eighth judicial district court where we it's kinda equally important to address, right? 'Cause we had the drug courts where primarily the substance misuse issues led to criminal behavior and so we're gonna address that. Or you had, you know, FDY where it was drinking you know, drinking or substance use and it was with some type of vehicle situation. We

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Angel: don't know about the mental health as much, but now knowing that as we have screened over year over time, over the years we've ice identified that wait a minute, we need to be focused on treating both with just the same amount of seriousness and concern. So we have a co-occurring disorders program. we also have our mental health program for the severely mentally ill who do primarily have their mental health diagnosis or psychosis that's driving the criminal behavior. And so we have

Katie: Sure.

Angel: that as well. So I feel like we've been working to establish more programs and more support. Not perfect, still work to do. but we we're working towards it, right? And then working with the Lima officers and several of those officers being able to transition to the crisis intervention team with Metro, I know that Metro is working to also help identify resources and best practices and ways to help when there's a barricade situation due to mental health challenges. or a mental

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Angel: health crisis and how to follow up with these families and these individuals to help them, you know, address what maybe resulted in the police contact. And if that was

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Angel: related to mental health, they want to, you know, be able to do something about it. So there's that. Some of the the competency court, I believe they are developing that. so it's like in a pilot program to be able to help with that. Even with Justice Court having their community court which also has similar to Lima this cross intersection of housing issues, mental health issues and substance issues. And so they have a resource track and a treatment track. Also the same with our Las Vegas municipal court. So both Justice Court, Municipal Court, and I believe North Las Vegas is also really looking to see how do we infuse programming to help people

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Angel: with these co occurring issues. So those are some of the things I'm aware of that is happening and we're working together more and collaborating more. we just hosted a community resource sharing meeting a few Fridays ago where we had over two hundred and fifty people show up looking for connection and resources. So that was incredible. and it didn't matter, you know, which agency you're with or, you know, how you found out about it, come on in and let's figure out how we can support one another. So I would say there's efforts in our community to change the narrative, to address some of the narratives that's out there. and what I would like to see moving forward, I do think there is still a lack, and I wanna say in our statistics we like 49 in mental health still, but a lack of maybe supportive housing and treatment when it's I if you will, when this mental health is severe, right? Where they can true like and if they only had a mental health condition and maybe

Katie: Right.

Angel: they don't have criminal background situations and maybe they don't have a substance misuse issue. I found that it is difficult to find the right resources, especially when it comes to availability for housing and treatment if you have mental health only. And if it's on a mild to moderate, I guess, scale with your symptoms, it's like not as many resources available for you to access without the substance misuse nex nexus. The substance issue. Yes, we we have a lot of resources. And so I would love to see us have more available resources for those individuals. also recently,

Katie: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Angel: as I've met more single fathers who are trying to parent their children while having a substance misuse issue, a housing issue, and mental health issues, I don't see a lot of resources that I can point them to for to house them with their children while they address. their symptoms. So I would like to

Katie: Yeah. That's

Angel: see more opportunities for housing and treatment available to address those things.

Katie: That's really interesting. I'm I'm glad that you brought that up because I think that it that's probably very accurate. people don't pay a lot of attention to, you know, single fathers who are struggling and who need their children with them and who need

Angel: Yes.

Katie: a place to stay. But you mentioned a lot of really important topics there. And

Angel: Okay.

Katie: one thing that yeah, you know, I w I was gonna bring up was was CIT, it was crisis intervention, you know, training with officers and you Know just like you said, these aren't these aren't perfect programs, but they're programs that are making improvements every year with more training involved. And I think you know, people who are, you know, maybe struggling in the community with mental health challenges. Now we have a little bit more of even just your kind of basic foundational services where they can call 988 instead of 911,

Angel: Right.

Katie: and they can get a CIT trained officer out there instead of someone who maybe isn't sure how to react in a mental health crisis, and so just that basic. stuff I think is you know helped but all of these other programs it's just so valuable to see that there are people working behind the scenes, right? And it takes a long time

Angel: Absolutely.

Katie: for these programs to build up, but they're happening and, you know, it just

Angel: Yes. Yes.

Katie: requires that effort to keep going.

Angel: Absolutely. Absolutely. I agree.

Katie: Yeah, absolutely. And and then you talk about the future and you know that that actually is a great segue into my next question, which is around housing, right? So I hear in Las Vegas, it does seem like we struggle with housing, with affordable housing for people with purely SMI, serious mental health or serious mental illness, and who don't have maybe a substance abuse issue along with that. And so it is really interesting that you brought that up because I found when I was working, you know, the volunteer helpline with NAMI Southern Nevada that that was by far the question that we got the most. And so talk to me a little bit about you know about that. Has Las Vegas gotten better with this housing for people with with serious mental illness? Is it still a big struggle? And you know this might be obvious to you and I, but why does it matter? Like, you know, why why should we have affordable housing for people who have serious mental illness and whom just need help to kind of get back on their feet?

Angel: Right, right, right. I again I'm not the expert on everybody in Las Vegas and what is happening,

Katie: Absolutely.

Angel: but as a having a little bit of a pulse to the streets, if you will, and being

Katie: Right.

Angel: peace on the ground, we still absolutely have work to do. I don't know of a lot of resources that have the ability to play someone with SMI right now today. If I was to have someone call me right now and it's like my child is really you know, experiencing a mental health crisis. we we did place them in the hospital and so once they are stable, they can't come back to my home, but I don't know where where I should place Do you have any ideas?

Katie: What do we do?

Angel: do they have a

Katie: Yeah, that's a tough question.

Angel: substance issue? No. They've never used any substances or abuse any subs okay. I feel like it's limited, right? obviously there's shelters, rescue mission and shade tree and things like that, but then that may not that's a temporary placement, that's just kind of overnight. so I think

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Angel: we could improve in that area. there I believe HBI might be one. I can name a few. You could maybe call the MCOs, but there's just if they're full and it's only three of them and they only have maybe ten beds per agency, then that's where we're we're left with or like you were we were mentioning, if they have a child with them, if they're a father with the child, then it's limited. I think that and if it's not severe mental health, but it's moderate, mild, maybe it's anxiety, depression, and bipolar. And they had an episode recently. And so that manic episode resulted in displacement. Now what? and they maybe were functioning, but they had you know, and their episodes are infrequent.

So there might be that. Well, maybe they don't reach the highest level of severity so they don't get access to the you know the resource for someone else who has a higher index right there and the score based on whatever the score of that agency or that entity, right? So there's these erroneous numbers that you're like, Well what's my number? And am I high enough? Or am I low enough? Or I'm too low on the scale and I'm too high on the scale. I've run into that as an help as a helper, you know, where they're like too severe. They have too many challenges.

Katie: Hm. Right.

Angel: housing substances, mental health, a child, a medical issue as well as maybe even a physical issue. we don't take them, you know? Yes, or it's too it's too little. Yes, or then like

Katie: Too much, yeah. It's like a Goldilocks. It's either too little or too much. Yeah.

Angel: well they were housed for a substantial amount of time, but then they lost their job, and when they lost their job they start using, and when they start using, you know, they were they were functioning but they've only technically been literally homeless for I don't know, let's say eight months or or less, between six to eight months. And so that's

Katie: Wow, yeah.

Angel: you need to be twelve months. Or you need it to be sixty months, but you're eight months. And so I was like, my goodness. You know, or you need another one more checkbox, you don't have that. So those are some of the challenges that I still see. I do think that we are like you mentioned earlier, we are making some efforts here. We are really trying to see how to get creative with what we do have available. And so I commend our community on that. definitely with the recovery community in regards to substance recovery. That I feel like is very much embedded in everywhere in Las Vegas that I've gone. Like, but sometimes if it's just mental health, maybe not as much. Maybe there's still stigma there, maybe there's just a lack of resources, but it's not as much as as I see when you have the substance nexus, substance use nexus, with your

Katie: Sure.

Angel: group or your support entities. So yeah,

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Angel: we can definitely improve. But we are putting forth efforts. there are people who reach out to me oftentimes about how what do you see that is needed? How do can you help me get a house for this or find how to get SAFTA approved or this entity approved? Or do you know anyone that can help me XYZ things? So I do believe we can see some improvements even more in the near future, but right now some of the ones that we've discussed today have, you know, unfortunately still plagued us with huge barriers.

Katie: Yeah. And actually that's a great segue to my last question. And you know, you mentioned things like, you know, funding, right? And just just basic barriers, right? We still have a lot of big barriers in place, especially when it comes to things that are just mental health related. It seems like we have more funding in some ways available for things that are substance use related. But regardless, we still need more resources. We still don't have enough resources, we still don't have enough housing. And so, you know, for you as some Who is kind of that boots on the ground advocate, you are advocating for all of these spaces to improve mental health in the justice system, to improve housing for individuals and families who have these you know, issues. so you know, for anybody out there who's maybe wondering how do I get involved? How do I be an an advocate? What what does that look like for you? Because you know, a a lot of people assume that to be a mental health advocate, they have to go up to Carson City and they have to get in front of the the podium, right? But what if that makes you nervous? What if you don't want to get in front of the podium? What if you don't live in Carson City? I think you really emulate someone who's an advocate on the ground. So tell me what at what advocacy, you know, means to you, what it looks like to you for anybody out there who's maybe, you know, wondering how they can get involved in just a small little way in their own community.

Angel: Absolutely. That's a great question too. So I I think advocacy could look like a lot of things and sometimes like you just mentioned they you you hear advocate and people think of this like this larger than life opportunity to get on stage in a podium and have a microphone. but advocacy to me it looks like compassion. It looks like small things, it looks like for I'll give some examples, right? You could in your workplace see something, say something type of situation. So if you hear people stigmatizing people's circumstances and you know better, help them do better. Have a conversation with them. Ask some intriguing questions to find out, you know, more about why they believe that to be true. If they're stigmatizing mental health, people with substance use issues. And you can advocate by having a conversation with helping them see maybe another side of it. for example, like Narcan. There's people who believe you should not have Narcan and there's people who believe that you absolutely everybody should have one in in their reach, right? And one time I was having a conversation with a nurse that was this was not in a setting that had anything to do with my typical, I guess, advocacy work, if you will. but

Katie: Mm.

Angel: we were in a place that was like a lab and they draw blood there. Anyway, and so I was passing out flyers about an event that had to do with overdose prevention. And this person is a nurse whose child had an opioid problem. I believe it started from a pain like an injury, like a car accident, led to a pain situation. It led to her being addicted to pills. which happens, which happens, right? And

Katie: Which happens all all over to millions of people, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Angel: remember this is a nurse and this is her only child, right? And she was telling me that she might reach out to me to see if I have resources to help her daughter because right now she was like at risk of losing her job because her pain issues and then she has a young kid and she's like, Man, it's just a hot mess, right? I was like, Okay, well, whatever I can do, reach out to me. And so, you know what? This event is coming up. I actually think this will be a place to get a lot of resources and it might be even good to and bring your daughter, inspire her for just people That might be walking the same journey, she's not alone. no, I wouldn't go to something like that. and then that reminds me, when I picked up her prescription, they had a prescription for Narcan. Why would they be giving me Narcan? If she wants to overdose, what she chose, I'm not giving her no Narcan. I don't agree with that. I feel like that's just enabling people to get high and abuse their substance again. This is a nurse, mind you. Wow. I said.

Katie: Wow. Yeah.

Angel: I said, so but could it be that it's an opportunity for her to choose different next time? But if she did,

Katie: Yeah

Angel: she don't have a choice. It's over. Well well she should have chosen to take all those pill. I said, I get that. I understand where you're coming from, and that's your child, and you have some frustrations and you've been filling a lot of gaps with her. But again, don't you want her to have an opportunity to choose different? But if she's gone. That's it. There's no more daughter. There's no more parent to your grandson. Narcan gives her a chance to choose. You know, and so we decided. I'll leave her with the flyer, I'll leave her with those words, and we'll move on. And you

Katie: Yeah.

Angel: know, change the subject. But that's a nurse who's responsible to help people. That's her only child. And this is her mindset. So sometimes advocacy looks like hopefully

Katie: Wow. That's how deep that stigma runs.

Angel: Planting a seed that will hopefully manifest to something else.

Katie: Yeah. Yeah.

Angel: And and when it comes to mental health, and especially with some people who are not willing to maybe take medications or maybe afraid to go to a professional to have that conversation, sometimes I tell them, Hey, you know what? It's kinda like your physical health. If your arm was hurting long enough, wouldn't you probably go check it out and see like your elbows not having the same mobility, your arms having pain every night. Eventually you probably go to the doctor and ask some questions.

Katie: Right.

Angel: That's the same situation when you're maybe sad when you feel like maybe you shouldn't. Something good happened and you can't shake it. Maybe it's lasting a little longer than the typical filling down that you've had in the past. It's a similar situation. You would go to the doctor when you have that physical pain. If you're having some mental pains and you can't figure out why It's okay to go to talk to someone about it. You can start with your primary care. And so sometimes I just give them options and hopefully plant a seed and make it okay. And depending on

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Angel: the situation, I might share a personal experience, let know how I did, or the plethora of examples of clientele that I've worked with. So that's advocacy, conversations advocacy, given a resources advocacy, holding

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Angel: the door open for someone could be an advocate. I do that a lot and I know that when people see you hold the door, sometimes they wanna rush, right? They'll rush and feel like, no, no, okay. And I said, No, take your time. I chose. I chose.

Katie: Yeah. Wow.

Angel: Take your time. Come on. That could be especially when you you think about we didn't even get into talking about seniors and some of the challenges that they may be facing and advocating for them and having conversations. So I always just say it can be as small as that, smiling, saying hello. Right? Someone who may not be your typical, I guess, person you have a conversation with. Find a reason to engage. It could be just a compliment about their earrings. And you never know where that conversation will take you. Find a reason to engage. People need engagement with real humans. And so that's advocacy to me. hopefully that answered your question. I think that don't cost any money.

Katie: It does. No, it doesn't. It's and it's amazing and everybody can do it, right? And you know, and I just think it's beautiful when you were listing off the things that are ad advocacy to you, that made me smile. And that's advocacy, you know, is to bring joy to to to your community and to try to break stigma and to, you know, improve and share those resources. And so all of that matters.

Angel: Absolutely.

Katie: And you know, I'm just really grateful for you coming on today. I've been wanting to be on my show for a little while now just because I see all the amazing work that you do in the community. So really grateful that you came on and just shared

Angel: Thank you.

Katie: your expertise, Angel, because it's it's real and you make a big difference here.

Angel: Thank you so much, Katie. You have helped advocate for me to be here. Right? There's an example right there. We met several years ago. I probably was in my head about do I have value to add? Could I go on? I don't this is not my most comfortable space is being on podcasts or even just talking in any kind of setting. It seemed like it, but it's not always most comfortable. But you advocated and gave me a voice. Right? You were Willing to follow up, willing to be patient, help point out ways that I can be impactful through just showing up. You create a safe space for me. We talked before I got on this I guess live well, maybe not live, but you know, got on the recording and you helped me feel comfortable by advocating for me to be here. That's advocacy. So I just want to thank you, Katie, for, you know, being willing to be patient with me on to advocate that I can be here and share a little bit of my insights. and thank you for being you. You're amazing. And I'm grateful that I got to be here today.

Katie: thank you so much. That's so sweet. Thank you for your kind words.

Angel: Absolutely.

Katie: And to anybody out there who's listening, you know, I hope that this helped you in any way, shape, or form to you know, smile a little bit more to be an advocate in your community to have those conversations and help break that stigma. And with that, we will go ahead and end today's show. This has been another episode of Watching Mental Health. We do come out on Wednesdays, so definitely check out my website at K. KatieRoseWector.com to see all of the episodes as well as this episode. And for anybody who wants to get in touch with Angel or maybe who wants to follow your journey or wants to be in that room that had over 200 people, how can they

Angel: Yeah.

Katie: get in touch with you or to follow you or to make sure that they are really connecting with the community?

Angel: yes, please do follow me. so you can follow me on Facebook. It's Angel Lash, A-N-G-E-L L A S H. So common spelling like eyelashes. You can follow me on Instagram at lash underscore three one three. a lot of information about what we have going on and I share a lot about events and community. There's also a page that our Lima alumni leaders have as well. So it's Lima Alumni L V on Instagram, I believe, and then the same on Facebook. And so you could find out about upcoming events for both the program and around town to get involved. And what else? Wait. you can also reach me my work email if you are interested in sending me an email through district court for any questions, lasha@clarkcountycourts.us that's plural dot us. So you can reach me there as well. And if you depend on when this is airing, if you have time on Thursday, September seventeenth, we're having our next Lima graduation, which will be our largest class in six years. And that will be at Metro headquarters at four hundred South MLK. The doors are open at eleven thirty. We'll get started around twelve, and we would love to have you there to celebrate with us and we will have some food at the duration of the graduation. So come to the rent.

Katie: Awesome. That's amazing. All right, fabulous. So anybody out there, please follow Angel so you can see what's coming up. She always shares quite a bit on her social media. And with that, I'll end the episode and we will see you next time on Watching Mental Health. Have a good day, everyone.

Angel: Bye everyone.