WMH Season 5 Ep 3: From Incarceration to Healing with Trauma Informed Justice

This is a transcript of Watching Mental Health Season 5, Episode 3 which you can watch and listen to here:

Katie: Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of Watching Mental Health. And my guest today is Ranae Van Roekel and I am so excited to talk to her because she comes with a really unique background. And after serving 36 months in federal prison, Ranae transformed her pain into a platform for connection, teaching others how to self-regulate, advocate for themselves, and heal from trauma before, during, and after incarceration. Ranae is the founder of Connecting to Cope, a platform dedicated to helping people develop real coping tools to manage stress, foster resilience, and create emotionally safe environments, whether that's in re-entry, in your workplace, at your home. And so today she leads conversations about trauma informed justice, mental health, and workplace wellness and her insights really resonate, I think, deeply with audiences who care about trauma-informed justice and re-entry realities, right? and authentic healing, what that really looks like. And so her message is not only about redemption, but it's about equipping others to break the cycle of pain, showing up for themselves, and lead with empathy. And so today on Watching Mental Health, we're gonna be talking about all these things: trauma-informed justice, care behind bars. How to manage stress in an emotionally safe environment. And with that, I want to welcome to the show, Ranae!

Ranae: Thank you so much, Katie. I'm looking so forward to talking to your listeners today and sharing some of my story as well as hopefully some helpful coping skills, self care, anything that makes you healthier, that's what I'm out there for.

Katie: I love that. Yeah. And I think walking away with some, you know, practical tools is always such a benefit and you know, something that I think would be really powerful for my audience. But first, I want to talk about, you know, I like to ask all my guests to start off with telling me a little bit about, you know, your journey, your mental health story, what you're comfortable with sharing and kind of what brought you to doing this work today, right? You could have done anything after leaving and you chose to do this and so I'd love to know more.

Ranae: Yeah, I could have went back into the corporate world, I suppose. but you know, with the choices I made and after healing and I should say starting to heal, I don't think I'm ever going to be fully healed because you know, every day brings a new day and sometimes we need to adjust those coping skills and how we react to others. But why I started connecting to COPE is I realized how much unresolved trauma led people to make poor choices. And some of those poor choices do lead to incarceration. Some are in relationships, you know, some are in work-related areas. So we all react to that unresolved trauma in a different way. And mine led to some mental health issues, some again, unresolved trauma, not getting help with that, and basically just pushing everything under the rug and never talking about it, which is what led me to make the choices that led me to federal prison. I'm not saying I was in prison because I had trauma. I'm saying that what happened to me really enveloped my life. without saying in in any other way. And I didn't realize how much it made me who I was until I started the healing process.

Katie: Hm, yeah. And I think that's probably true for a lot of people who are experience a mental health challenge that then leads to incarceration, whatever that may look like. And then I think from there it's probably a challenge to really get trauma informed care in, you know, in the jail system. And so I think that a lot of my, you know, audience knows what trauma informed care means, but they don't understand what trauma informed justice means. So talk to me about that. What does that mean?

Ranae: So to me, you know, I think, you know, just like everything else means, you know, different things to different people, trauma informed justice, I think in a nutshell means that we understand that so many people that are in jail today, that are incarcerated today, that are on you know home confinement today do have a past that involves some sort of trauma. And that in order to heal that person and reduce their chance for recidivating, which means to obviously commit another crime after they're get out. After they get out of prison or get released, that we need to get to the bottom of why those people are incarcerated. And yes, we know the crime they committed, everybody knows that. Your guards, the people you're in with, but do we really know why? And that is, I believe, what our justice system needs to start looking at. And I believe they are. And it's very slow. everything's very slow in our government. But I do believe they are starting to look at the mental well being of so many people who are incarcerated and especially women. this is a rough estimate, and I'm going to say this rough estimate, so if you can put it on on your podcast, about eighty-five percent of women who are incarcerated today do have some form of trauma in their lives. And again, that is it you can look at all different numbers, you know, some say sixty, some say ninety-five. I read an article recently that said eighty-five. And so I don't want this to be blocked out of your podcast because the numbers aren't right, but let's just say it's high and it's at least over

Katie: Yeah.

Ranae: fifty percent. And so by getting our you know, our prison systems involved in that care, we are going to reduce

Katie: Mm.

Ranae: that recidivism rate and we're going to have healthy, productive citizens that come out of you know, that come out of prison instead of people who go back into doing what they were doing before.

Katie: Yeah, that's really that's a really interesting statistic. And I didn't, you know, really think about that, but I think that that, you know, is is really important to know. And, you know, another statistic that I have heard quite a bit, especially here in Nevada and my home state, is that our, you know, our prison system is our largest mental health facility, right? It it holds the most people with mental and I think that's true across the country. And it just goes to show that I think a lot of people who do wind up behind bars are experiencing some sort of crisis, whether that's trauma, a mental health challenge, their family, their environment, right? The environment really does impact a lot of where we wind up.

Ranae: Well, an environment itself can be a traumatic experience. So where you grow up has a lot to do with that. And, you know, that starts way back, and we could get into this whole educational system thing that I really believe is a big cause of why so many people from lower demographics end up incarcerated, is because they don't have the care and they're almost expected, quote unquote, and again that's you know a relative term. To have some sort of criminal activity during their life because that's what their families do, that's what they do. And that's, you know, hopefully turning around. there's bills out there that are trying to get passed so that we're helping kids in schools and lower demographic areas. There's bills out there that we are trying to get, you know, more education for people in the justice system, in the prison systems. And that's at both the, you know, county, state, and federal level. They just opened up a new system in the federal system that they are allowing like tablets within the systems and so they can have their educational classes and lack of a better term, right on their their tablets now, which is something that has been being bought fought for for a long time. And it took a lot to get it so that they were safe and that they weren't using them for nefarious activities, which I'm sure it will still happen. But because there are some

Katie: Sure.

Ranae: yeah there there are some people that are just out to do that. And you know, they just haven't got to the point of healing yet. And hopefully everyone does at some point. But again, a lot of work being done. And do you want me to tell you a little bit about my trauma? I'm glad to talk about that. I used to not be so open about it, but I found that it really helps people if I'm open about what happened to me and what led me to my incarceration.

Katie: Yeah, I'd love to hear your story. You know, like like I said before, definitely don't want to push anything, but I I would love to hear whatever you're open with sharing with our audience. I think you're right. Like it, you know, makes more of an impact when we're able to to share. And it's hard. It's super hard to share our stories. Yeah.

Ranae: It is hard as it's getting easier. I will tell you that, Katie. And also I think in my heart, I know if I'm open and honest with you about what happened to me, then you're probably going to find a way to open up to me so that we can talk about some coping skills, self-care skills. again, I'm not a professional, but you know, we can talk about who you can go to to get some, you know, mental health health care and treatment past what we talk about. So that's

Katie: Yeah.

Ranae: kind of where I'm at. But anyway, about me.

Katie: Yeah.

Ranae: I grew up in a very tiny town in Minnesota. There's about five hundred people, like nineteen people in my high school class. it was a kind of town where most people knew what you did and would tell your parents what you did before you even got home if there was something that was not kosher.

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Ranae: And knew everybody, trusted everybody because that's just really kind of how we grew up and

Katie: Small town. Yeah.

Ranae: Yep. And I unfortunately suffered some sexual abuse, a sexual assault by some local boys in my town. And tough at the time, wasn't really old enough to understand what had happened to me. And to make a long story short, I went home to my mom and told her what had happened and she cleaned me up, made sure I didn't have to go at the doctor and And basically told me that this is something that we keep to ourselves because they're going to think you're bad, not the boys. So you have remember this is in the seventies. I'm old, getting getting old anyway, and or getting older every day, I should say. And that really was the thought process back then. She wasn't doing it to hurt me. She wasn't doing it to make my life difficult. She was trying to make my life better. And

Katie: Yeah.

Ranae: As I got into healing from that, I realized that really the only thing I heard from her was bad. And so that is what stuck in my head that I

Katie: Mm.

Ranae: was bad and I might as well not try to be good because, you know, this was my lot in life. And, you know, a little bit of, you know, s self sympathy, really thinking, okay, this is what happened to me. I'm done. And that's kind of how I lived my life. Now, on the outside, you wouldn't have known that. 4.0 student, successful in high school, successful in college.

Katie: Wow.

Ranae: got married young, had two wonderful boys. most of the time I was a good mom. We all fail at that sometimes, right? They don't come with these little instruction manuals. But

Katie: Mm mm.

Ranae: I think I was very, very, you know, involved in their lives and tried to let them have as much freedom as I could give them. I think if I faltered anywhere, it was probably because I was overprotective because of what happened to me. And finally, my secret life, which was disassociating, I was a terrible disassociator. I would forget whole days, not knowing what I was doing. I was a people pleaser. And I made sure that because in my heart I knew I was bad, I wanted everyone to like me. So I would do whatever I could to make that happen. And those are the things that led to the choices that got me incarcerated. And so regretful of everything and you know, everything I did, everyone I hurt, you know, my victims, my family. But what that did do for me is for the first time in my life, when I was incarcerated, let me self examine who I was and why I did what I did. You know, I s I I couldn't see the good parts of me, other people could. And I needed to realize that you are not the worst thing that's ever happened to you or the worst thing you've ever did. You are a culmination of all things in your life, right? And that is what starting the healing process did for me, is let me see that I was a mix of all that. And most people are. So prison, again, for the first time, gave me time to focus on me. I didn't have much else to do. I worked, I worked out, I did all the things that people hear you do in prison, but I also attended every mental health class I could. And I had a great gal. to this day I thank her because she basically told me either you can keep lying to me or you can tell me the truth and we can try to get you on the road to healing before you go home. And she said, walk out of the room, come back tomorrow and tell me what we're gonna do. Otherwise I'm gonna hand you off to someone else who doesn't care. And that is that is basically what happened. And I decided, you know what? If I'm gonna get better, if I'm gonna go home to my kids and my husband and, you know, be a better person, then I need to find out how to do that and find out who I am. And that's where it started.

Katie: Wow. That's amazing. you know, what's funny, what's interesting to me is the beginning of your story just sounded so

Ranae: Yeah.

Katie: normal in the many ways. A lot of a lot of women experienced that, you know, and a lot of that is then covered up and, you know, felt in shame for years while we try to go on and live our lives and you we get married and we do all these things that are expected of us. and sometimes it still doesn't it's not enough, right? It It's not enough if you're not looking in, if you're not taking care of your mental health. And maybe some of it could have been avoided by having that, you know, perspective beforehand. But it sounds like you didn't even have time. Like, you know, you're living life. You have no idea what's even going on.

Ranae: I I really didn't. I I really didn't. And you know, and I I can'remember myself before. I've tried EMDR, I've tried some different things to like

Katie: Wow.

Ranae: try to remember beforehand. And I'm getting there. You know, we're we're working on it, and you know, healing is a continual process. Staying healthy is a continual process. Some days I get up and I think I'm gonna be better today and I fail miserably, and then maybe tomorrow I'll be fifty-fifty. Or some days I do have a little breakthrough and those are wonderful days. Really all my days are wonderful, but it's just we have to realize that healing is not automatic and it's not instantaneous. And do I believe we can be healed from trauma? I've heard people who say they are. So I I believe that. I believe that. Do I know that I will ever be totally healed from what happened to me? I don't know. You know, I

Katie: Hm

Ranae: I can't tell you the answer to that question, but I can tell you that I have healthy coping skills now. I have a great circle around me. And those are all well, those are two of the most important things that you can have. Taking self care days, knowing when you need to do those things. So I am very glad that I'm as far as I am and I'm not back where I was because looking back, I don't know how I survived.

Katie: Wow.

Ranae: And I think so many of us are that way, right? You look back and you're like, How did I make it through that day or how did I make it through that year? And

Katie: Right.

Ranae: here we are sitting and and we're here and we're strong and resilient women. So that's kind of w how I live my life now. But anyway, ask me what else we need.

Katie: Yeah. Well, that's that's amazing. I want to get into, you know, some of these stress management tools and, you know, these practices that we use. But before that, you know, I just before

Ranae: Yeah.

Katie: we move on, you know, just you did mention kind of what what we're doing to improve our jails, right? And what we're doing to improve not only that, but our next

Ranae: Yeah.

Katie: generation, which I think is really powerful. You know, what does trauma informed care really look like in the in the prison system? it sounds like, you know, you went out of your way to attend all the mental health classes, right? To to really, you know, utilize what was in front of you. is that something that's available to everybody who might be incarcerated? And, you know, how do we improve kind of what mental health looks like in the jail system?

Ranae: So I cannot tell you exactly what it looks like today. I can tell you what it looks like about six months ago because I talked to some people who had just gotten out and I haven't talked to anyone who's there today. I also talked

Katie: Okay.

Ranae: to my congressman, you know, about what's going on because I'm I'm try be bipartisan totally because I believe that the first STEP act that was passed, which has really enhanced People getting more education in prisons, people getting more mental health care in prisons, being able to prove that indeed I am working on myself, which means I can get back into the mainstream quickly, still with supervision, of course. that those are all, you know, positive things that happened during the first Trump administration. Now, during the second one, d or during Biden's terms, I don't think much happened with the First Step Act. but some other positive things did. He just didn't work a lot on making sure that that was enhanced and worked on. Now it's getting kind of back into the mainstream where prisons, and this is at the federal system, by the way, the federal level. I can talk about state later because every state's different. But

Katie: Right.

Ranae: at the federal level, they prisons are now being held accountable to make sure that people who They they take like a screening type test for the first step act and what it shows they should take, they are now forced to take. Now, are

Katie: Okay.

Ranae: they forced to learn? No, we can't force anybody to learn, right? But hopefully there, you know, there are the good people that work there and really want you to get better. Like Katerina Richardson, sh I can say her name on here. She was my psychiatrist, psychologist in prison, and she wants people to get better.

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Ranae: she believes that again, you're a a culmination of everyone you are and you're not just the bad person sitting across from me that's incarcerated at this point. So

Katie: Hmm. Right.

Ranae: back to answer your question, I believe that there's always been mental health programs available. There's always been addiction programs available. There's something called RDAP, which is their form of addiction counseling. if you go through that, get through it, you can get a year off your sentence if you do it successfully. And that's a good program. They have, you know, the beginning of cognitive behavioral therapy. everything there, you know, learning how to Learning how to rationalize your thoughts, I guess, is a good way to describe what they do with that class and teaching you something called RSAs, which is taking the your good thought, your bad thought, and evaluating that in your head as what would happen to each way and what way you should take. That's something that I still learn to this day and or use to this day.

Katie: Yeah.

Ranae: And I can do in about 2.3 seconds now if something's facing me. I can say this or this. Okay, you know, I need to take this road. So always there has been. but they were not forced upon people in any way, shape, or form. They are now developing new programs, new mental health programs, classes, new educational programs, which are huge for people because they now know that they will have a way to earn money, boost their self esteem, when they do get out of incarceration so they can find a job, which is something Huge. they are passing laws where, you know, you cannot not rent to someone because they've been incarcerated for certain crimes. Now, violent crimes,

Katie: No.

Ranae: that has not changed yet. But for drug or money type situations,

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Ranae: you know, they're out, you know, here's a guarantee that, you know, they will pay your pay their rent type thing, but you should give them a second chance. And so I'm glad

Katie: Yeah.

Ranae: about that. Because so many people do need that second chance. And that's I I was lucky. I came home to a husband. I have been married, I'll be married thirty-nine years in a couple months. Crazy. and my kids are a huge part of my life. So I had a good nucleus when I came home. People who basically watch my every move, and I'm not kidding kidding you with that. And it's okay. if they think I'm at all off my straight and narrow path, they are

Katie: Mm.

Ranae: and not even crimin criminally, but like if my mental health is suffering,

Katie: Right.

Ranae: if I seem down and depressed, they're there for me. but I I do think that again, there were programs, there's new programs being made, and that is what that looks like in our system today.

Katie: Yeah, that's that's really cool. I think that it shows that improvements are being made, right? They're slow. you mentioned earlier the government is very slow moving, especially

Ranae: Yeah.

Katie: the federal government, but it but it does move. And you know, I think that it is being talked about more, especially here, you know, if we're talking states, right? Like here in Nevada, we are talking about that more. and about really getting our our the people in our prison systems better access to behavioral health care. And so I I hope that across the country in different states it's happening too.

Ranae: Well, and along with that, the fact that they can get some sort of training for a job boosts their mental health, right? I mean, that helps with the depression side of it. We we all know that, you know, that if you have something to look forward to, also with those tablets, they are it is very strict and regimented, but they have more access to speak to their family through email. And you don't have to go to a room with a computer and wait in line and maybe get 10 minutes on a computer, right? you can, you know, email your person any time of the day and they can email you

Katie: Right.

Ranae: any time of the day. So that family and friend access as long as approved is another huge boost for mental health within the prison systems. And I know, excuse me, a lot of states already have those tablets available. There's a few companies out there that are really working hard to get in an all fifty and we'll see what happens with that. But some are stricter than others and it takes longer. So that's how it is.

Katie: Yeah, for sure. it's interesting and it, you know, it just shows that yeah, you have to keep advocating. You have to kind of keep showing up. The work never really ends.

Ranae: Really ended.

Katie: you know, but that's a good segue though, because now I want to talk more about you know, just how people can deal with their trauma in a in a safe

Ranae: Well not.

Katie: way and what are some of the tools and some of the healing practices that you know, have helped you to to really kind of get to where you are today and and and what we can utilize no matter what environment we're in, right? What we should be doing to to kinda help our mental health, especially if we're dealing with like a trauma or, you know, really reliving a trauma from our past.

Ranae: And for me, and I tell this to every class I teach or every group I speak to, really what helped me is the is the want to be there. You know, I

Katie: Hm.

Ranae: I want to get better. And I know we can all say that, right? Because I had said it before in my life and it really wasn't true because I knew how bad I was, right? So that's where I was. But really I think that need and that abilities for the first time in my life. To say, I want to get better. Not I need to get better, but I want to get better. And the first therapy that I used is was definitely cognitive behavioral therapy. just learning, you know, basically a better way to think and not always assuming the bad about myself or assuming the bad about other people. And finding out how emotions regulate those things and that having emotions are okay, that you can

Katie: Yeah.

Ranae: be happy, you can be sad. And that was a huge stepping stone for me. I don't know what you think about CBT, but like I say, it was the it was a huge starting point for me. I mean I've done more more over the years, but that was a great place to start. What do you think, Katie?

Katie: Yeah, I agree. I think CBT has been really helpful. I mean, for me, you know, as well. I I was in therapy since I since I was a teenager. I'm I think I'm lucky in some ways that I recognized very early on that I needed help with my mental health. And you know, that that really helped me. And so yeah, the first I wanna say decade, like from 16 to Yeah, 25. I I probably utilized different forms

Ranae: You like.

Katie: of therapy. Tried EMDR. That was, you know, helpful. But yeah, I found CBT to be, to be really powerful. And really, you know, it's kind of like you just have to keep trying what works for you. And it often comes down to that relationship, right, with the therapist, you know, how much you can really trust them. So it sounds like your relationship with that psychiatrist in the prison system is part of what really made. it work is that y not only did you want but but she was there.

Ranae: It is. It is. It is. You kinda opened up the next thing I was going to say is trust in who you trust. You know,

Katie: Yeah.

Ranae: who who can you trust? Who can you talk to? And that's not something that just happens. You walk in, I trust this person. It's a relationship that's formed like any other relationship, right? And I needed someone who was tough on me. when I be before I went before I was I guess no better word than locked up. Before I turned myself in, I had court appointed therapy. They wanted me to go through some before I went through getting sentenced. I d so another thing about me, which is just crazy, and all the guards in prison actually said, Venruka, why are you here?

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Ranae: I was never indicted. I was never arrested. I never was in a prison cell. I was ne never had handcuffs on.

Katie: Wow.

Ranae: I turned myself in when I couldn't f look at myself in the mirror anymore. So that is they they would give me a rough time about that. I'm like, I'm here because I committed a crime. And I knew I committed a crime and I didn't really know what I did at that time, but I knew I did. And so those first what I'm leading into is those first therapists were not hard on me. They were like, you poor girl, you got sexually assaulted. Your mom said this to you. And I really didn't even tell them the whole story. So that's why you've been the way, you know, blah, blah, blah. And, you know, Katerina was different. She is like, you know, I feel bad. Everybody's

Katie: Yeah.

Ranae: got stuff. And we need to learn learn to deal with our own stuff. And you need to learn to deal with this in a healthy way instead of in the way you have been dealing with it. And so that starts now. So no more feeling sorry. You know, not for yourself or anybody else feeling sorry for you. And you have to do the work. And I tell people that every day too. You know, if you're not willing to put the work into it, it is going to be a long row to hoe. And there'll be days you won't put your work in, but then you'll wake up the next morning and say, Okay, that day's done. Now today I'm gonna work hard again. and so that trust that you have that this lady isn't telling you your man isn't telling you things just to be mean to you.

Katie: Mm.

Ranae: but really to get to the bottom of your issues and to try to get you to talk about and resolve some of that trauma and the things that have happened since in your life. So I think yes, trust in your in in your practitioner is huge. Whether that be a peer advocate like me, whether it be a licensed psych you know, a licensed therapist, a psychiatrist, a psychologist, whoever it is,

Katie: Yeah.

Ranae: Just get that trusting relationship there. And

Katie: Yeah.

Ranae: along with that, and the CBT is finding some healthy coping skills that do help you get through the day.

Katie: Yeah, absolutely. And those coping skills might look different, you know, for everyone. And so what are some of your favorites?

Ranae: Mind change because of

Katie: Okay.

Ranae: course life changes, but so my I I love to ground myself and I have to that that is something that I really have to do because of my situation with disassociation. I will still disassociate from time to time if I'm in a stressful situation. so another little part of my story is that one of the boys who abused me, he was older than me, but he ended up marrying a family member. So I had to see him all the time. And so disassociation became my weapon of choice. And I will

Katie: Yeah.

Ranae: say weapon because it became almost a weapon to myself. And so I like grounding. If I feel myself disassociating, I I will ground myself. I like walking. That is something that I can do. I like reading. Getting so myself lost in a book is amazing. my newest

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Ranae: thing is spending any time I can with my grandkids. I am now a proud grandmother of four, and it is the best thing that has ever happened to me. So those those are just a few things. Self-care, you know, self-care days look like going to get your hair done, taking ten minutes out and having a cup of tea, getting your fingernails done. talking to a friend, you know, there's so many, I mean, we could list hundreds if we wanted to. And really what I tell people that I speak to and talk to is list some. You know, what do you think a coping skill is? What do you think an unhealthy coping skill is? And what do you think a good self-care day or a good self-care activity would be? And they come up with some great stuff, things that I've used that I had never thought of. So again, it's individual. What makes you happy and what's healthy? And those are the two things, the happy and healthy thing are the two most important things.

Katie: Mm, that is such a good piece of advice. If it is does it make you happy and is it healthy? And I think that that's really powerful. man, I love that. And I'm a big reader too. So

Ranae: Yeah. And I'm a big reader too.

Katie: that's exciting to me that, you know, getting lost in a book is just it can be something else when, you know, sometimes you need a little healthy escape, right?

Ranae: I know. My husband does joke with me. I've been reading Freeda McFadden and he like, I don't

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Ranae: like you reading all those Freeda McFadden books. So it's kind of a joke in our house, it's all criminal or crime things. And I'm like, Nope, just just like her writing. So I guess she got a shout out on this podcast. I don't think she needs one. Her books are crazy, but she's she's a great writer, so

Katie: I love that. I love that. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. This was so powerful, I think, for anybody who's experiencing trauma, who's maybe, you know, experienced themselves or a loved one who's been incarcerated. There's still so much stigma around it. And so I think having this conversation really matters. And so thank you for coming on the show and for sharing your wisdom with us today.

Ranae: Thank you so much. And if you need anything else, and if you want to, you know, look further into what I talk about, what I write about, go to connecting to cope dot com. We'd be glad to have you join.

Katie: Perfect. Yeah, I was gonna ask that next if there's any way, you know, if anybody wants to have you come out and talk and to speak more on these topics. what's the website one more time?

Ranae: It's www.connectingtocope.com and I'm on Facebook as well and Instagram. So but yeah, just you can find me.

Katie: Wonderful. Well, thank you again for coming on the show and thank you to everyone who tuned in today to watching mental health. And we will see you next time and have a great day, everyone. Bye bye.