WMH Season 5 Ep 1: DNA and Nutrition: A Customized Approach to Mental Health

This is a transcript of Watching Mental Health Season 5, Episode 1 which you can watch and listen to here:

Katie Waechter: Everyone, and welcome to another episode of Watching Mental Health. And I am so excited because today we have an expert in something that I think that we all need to talk a little bit more about. And so I want to talk about Lane, who brings over 10,000 hours of experience to nervous system regulation and stress management work. She is a certified functional nutritionist and an applied neuroscience academy graduate. Lane combines cutting edge science with compassionate personalized coaching. And that's what I really love: bringing the science and the coaching together to create something that works. And Lane's personal journey really began with an autoimmune diagnosis that transformed her understanding of health. And this experience fueled her passion to help others discover their own unique biology and how that impacts their stress response. And through DNA wellness analysis and nervous system training, she teaches clients exactly how to manage their individual stress. No generic advice, just personalized science, which I again love. And today on Watching Mental Health, we're gonna be discussing nervous system regulation and stress management. And that's something that, like I said, we all think need a little bit more help in these days. So with that, welcome to the show, Lane Kennedy!

Lane Kennedy: Thanks for having me, Katie. It's good to be with you.

Katie: Thank you so much for joining me. And you know, this is such a timely topic. I think that especially in our American culture, a lot of us are running on stress and on burnout and on constant nervous system dysregulation, I'll say. but before we get into all of that, I just want to start off by asking you and asking all of my c you know guests, you know, what brought you to this field? Why did you choose to, you know, go into you know, this line of work and and maybe it has something to do with, you know, the diagnosis that you received.

Lane: Yes. Yes and yes and yes. So my story starts about thirty years ago, really. I found recovery from alcoholism. And when I got sober and found recovery, I thought that I was gonna be better. I thought alcohol was my main issue. But reality was that alcohol had already started to deteriorate my body and I my immune system broke down. I was two years into my recovery and I found myself in bed and having people having to take care of me. And so it was kind of, you know, a really like eye-opening experience and discovering the power of food and nutrition. I was introduced to a naturopath and he completely transformed my body within five months. So that kind of started me down this path of total body wellness. And, you know, here I am 30 years later, still very intrigued with the body-mind connection. I had a son, he'll be 17. you know, and when I had my son, again, kind of the bottom fell out on me. And I just wasn't ready for that, didn't understand it. Because I was doing all the right things. And I have a kind of a little bit of a pattern of doing all the right things according to someone else, according to the doctor, according to the influencer, and according to all these. And so then I, you know, when he when my son was born, I also got into DNA and genetics. And I invested in a company here in San Francisco. I live in the Bay Area.

Katie: Yeah.

Lane: So, you know, that at that time there were a lot of new innovative companies coming online with the technology and DNA. And I got involved with one and I started verociously just learning about DNA and and wanting to understand it. And through that, I started seeing that, there's a connection between my nervous system and my genetics and how I actually operate and how I function and how I move about in the world. And so that was like a little ding ding ding. and then s you know shortly thereafter that my son was about you know six years old and I the bottom fell out on me again and I had this this moment of like inner rage and I didn't understand like I didn't know what anger was. Like I had never identified it because I'm just happy go lucky. And but I had this moment where I like saw myself yelling at somebody and and and I was like this isn't right.

Katie: Yeah.

Lane: And so that kind of kicked me down this really deep path into this contemplative, you know, mindfulness, understanding the practice or again, that's this body-mind connection on how to control is not the right word, but how do I mindfully watch what I'm doing and my thinking? And so I've been able to put together, you know, this nutrition background, this DNA background, and the mindfulness to support my students and my clients.

Katie: Yeah. Yeah.

Lane: Did answer the question?

Katie: Yeah, that's amazing. you're you're very unique. I I like to call myself a unicorn. I would consider you a unicorn in that way. It's it's a lot of you know, I think multiple things coming together. And so you mentioned the mind-body connection. 

So you mentioned that mind-body connection, you mentioned nutrition and you know, kind of what we're putting into our bodies, right? And then you also mentioned DNA. And so kind of bringing all those together with the focus of nervous system regulation, I think is just is really, really cool. And it feels like you have really discovered a lot through your own personal journey.

Lane: I've discovered a lot through my journey and also, you know, I've been doing this work for so long, I can see patterns with people now. And it it's so clear to me. And I think about maybe like in the last eighteen months, I've seen a huge impact in people's stress and this relationship to their mental health and what's happening. And it's it's I I can only connect it to AI. Yeah.

Katie: It is really interesting with the advance of AI and I'm sure you've seen a lot in the Bay Area as well, because they always seem to be on the cutting edge of things, even with DNA. And so let's talk a little bit more about DNA. So what, you know, kind of have you discovered and why is it important to be considering DNA when we're thinking about stress regulation and nervous system regulation?

Lane: Yeah. So the first thing that I'll share is that, you know, our DNA is specific to us. Right. It's our own blueprint. It's it talks to us constantly. And that's also talking to your immune system, which is also talking to your nervous system. It's unique to you, right? So when somebody says, go ahead and meditate, and s and somebody has this visceral reaction. I I don't want to meditate. I can't meditate. I have too much going on right now. I can't think. I have too many racing thoughts. I can look at somebody's blueprint and be like, yeah, meditation's not gonna work for you. Why don't you go do some walking? Why don't you get on the bike and just do an elliptical training session? Why don't you like there's other ways to help people find that peace and calm because their genetics are driving them. And and

Katie: Yeah.

Lane: So many people just think, meditation's gonna be the answer. It's not. And you know, I've been teaching meditation for almost 10 years now. And every so often I'll get a student in my class where they're like, This is a bad idea. And I'm like, maybe it is a bad idea for you. So keep your eyes open. It's okay. You know, like that there's so many things to really consider when you're looking at creating a practice for somebody. and that DNA element, there are

Katie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Lane: very specific genes that I can see that are gonna make people a little a little more driven, so to speak, or a little more high strung, or a little more depressed. Yeah.

Katie: Okay. Wow, that's that's so interesting. So that kind of touches on what you were saying about creating like a personalized science approach for each client because each client has a different their DNA looks a little different, right? So you have to look at that as well as other factors. And it seems like other factors include like food and nutrition.

Lane: Yes, yes, a hundred percent. You know, I everybody thinks, I'm eating great. I'm eating great.

Katie: Right. I'm healthy. Yeah.

Lane: It's okay. I mean, I I'm not here judging because, you know, I have a bag of Fritos on my kitchen t counter here. Like, I get it. but it's it's like the nutrients that we are consuming these days is just not enough for our bodies. You know, the world has s changed so much and the human body is incredibly resilient. Right. And, you know, when I make somebody a a lifestyle plan and I'm like, okay, you're gonna have to get in, you know, 35 grams of fiber, they're like,

Katie: What is that? How do I do that?

Lane: What does that even mean? What what is that? I'm gonna be eating salad all day long. I'm like no, you just have to know how to do it. Like what are the most nutrient dense foods that you can get into your body that are gonna support your nervous system?

Katie: Right. So that makes sense that then you took on becoming a nutritional a nutritionist because you really need to know these things in order to to provide that for your for your clients.

Lane: Yeah, yeah.

Katie: That's so amazing. Do you think that it would be different in in another culture or another country? And I I have two two things I'm thinking about on this. First, there's the American diet, right? Which I think is really nutritionally deficient, right? So it's not helping us. and then also I think there's that American culture of work. Work through your stress. And if you're not working, you're lazy. And it and it feels like that puts our nervous systems even more kind of on on fritz. And so have you noticed that or what do you think about that?

Lane: I think nutrition is the backbone. Right? Because nutrients has all the minerals, right? We most people are mineral deficient. If you're mineral deficient, then you're gonna be more anxious or more depressed. And your doctor's not telling you this. Your doctor's not they're not talking about what you put into your body, right? They're just thinking, you're depressed, I'm gonna give you medicine to support you. Instead of investigating the lifestyle of somebody, right? And I think.

Katie: Thinking that.

Lane: And I'm not poo-pooing doctors. I mean, we we are in a world right now where there's just too many people and there's not enough time. You know, you every doctor can't spend an hour with a person. But really therapeutically, we need time to understand the person that's sitting right in front of, you know, like I take time with my clients to understand what's driving them, what's got them kind of feeling lull or broke, you know, kind of broken or burnt out. And again, not everything's gonna be the same, right? If you had a sister or your mother came to me, it it's gonna be totally different. Yeah.

Katie: Different. Yeah. That is so interesting. And I just think that When you really think about, yeah, like how doctors approach it and then how therapists approach it. And you know, I I think that we as a society are beginning to finally think about our mental health a little bit more. but we're still not really fully understanding it. It's so customized because everybody's mental health is different, everybody's DNA is different. And I think a lot of people struggle with that because they want the one size fits all approach and that's just not how it works. And and I it seems like know, you're really you've really seen that yourself in your own experience as well as with your clients.

Lane: I I see it all I see it everywhere now. It's like something I can't s unsee. Yeah.

Katie: Yeah. Yeah. Wow, I just I really like that you took that approach and you know, you live in the Bay Area with a lot of I think stress, right? A lot of people who are, you know, worried about money or career, all of that, you know, it's a very expensive area. And then America in general, like I said, you know, we have this kind of intense culture. and so, you know, if somebody is maybe struggling, I think a lot of us may be experiencing stress, you know, what would be kind of your basic recommendation to somebody who you know, you see who's out there who's struggling a little bit with their stress management.

Lane: You know, the first thing that I share is is like get your phone out of your room. Like you don't need it as an alarm clock. You just don't. You just don't. So that's the first place where I start. I get somebody really focusing on their sleep circadian rhythm cycles, like really understanding what their sleep is like. It's one of the first things that I bring up in my classes when I'm teaching. Like, where are you with sleep? Like just

Katie: Hmm. Yeah.

Lane: On a scale from one to ten, you wake up in the morning, you're great. That's a 10, or are you at a one and you're just like, you know, most most of my clients and my students are like, you know, two, three. So and this is again, it's universal because this is not only happening in my student population. This is happening in, you know, conversations I'm having with my colleagues. You know, this is conversations that I'm having with friends. you know, it's everybody's sleep so it's hammered right now.

Katie: Yeah. Wow. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Lane: because people are on their devices so much, right? And genetically, right, that's just driving. There's a couple of genes, the DRDs, that are just being driven by that scroll, by this eye contact. It's it's just taking things away from you and you don't even know it because you're in it, right? So that's the first place I start, you know, is like take the phone out of your room and let's start working on your sleep. Find your sleep window is really critical.

Katie: Yeah.

Lane: and if you don't know what your sleep window is, the sleep window is when you first start to conk out. And then you back off about 45 minutes to an hour. Right. So you know, if your sleep, if you feel that nod at nine o'clock, your sleep window is eight to nine thirty. That means you need to be in bed, in bed by nine o'clock.

Katie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. Okay. Okay. That's good advice.

Lane: Because you that first sleep cycle is so yummy and juicy for your whole body. So you really want to make sure that you're landing in that zone. And if you nod out at the T V, you've missed you've missed your first yeah.

Katie: You've missed it. Wow. Wow. That that's so true. that is so interesting. so for anyone out there who's maybe wondering, you know, what is nervous system dysregulation? What is nervous system regulation? What is that? So can you explain that to us a little bit?

Lane: Yeah, so it comes in so many forms and now I just see it with you know tension in your shoulders, sleep disruption, hormonal changes, hormonal changes for men and for women, that that's happening a lot. it can come in achy joints, it could come in a tight jaw, tired eyes, the inability to eat.

Katie: Yeah.

Lane: upset stomach.

Katie: Lot of people have that upset stomach. That's like huge problem in our cultures, our tummies. And nobody thinks about that connection between your stomach and your brain. And there is. There is a big connection there.

Lane: Yeah. Huge. Huge. Yeah, it's huge. It's huge. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's not easy to get the stomach back online either. It takes, it takes real commitment. And that's when I that's when I know somebody's completely almost almost to that burnout place. Like there, I think there's stages of burnout. And when somebody's not able to eat, Yeah. They're they're yeah.

Katie: Yeah, they're gone. So that's good, that's good advice for anyone who's listening. You know, if you are really struggling to eat, you know, th look in. You know, are you experiencing symptoms of burnout? And if that's the case, you know, what should people be doing to try to get out of that? I know you mentioned sleep would be work I know working with you might be a good option for some po folks. So talk to me a little bit about what people can do to get out of this state.

Lane: Yeah. I think this is something that you can't do alone. It really isn't. And if you're not working with me, then you're working with somebody else who knows nervous system dysregulation. And there's plenty of people out there. Everybody all of a sudden is now a meditation teacher or mindfulness teacher or just you know, nervous system person. It's so it's it's like

Katie: Yeah.

Lane: Doesn't matter. All of a sudden people are just I'm an expert. Yeah, it's a trend. It's a trend. And like you you have no idea. Like what are you talking about? Anyways. So the first thing to do is like find somebody that you resonate with. You know, it really that is critical right there because you need to have a relationship because you need to they need to understand what's happening with you. And the only way that you can kind of unfold to somebody is if you have that kind of connection, that rapport.

Katie: Mm-hmm. It's the trend. It's the new trend to be, yeah. Right. Trust.

Lane: Yeah. So that's the first thing that I would say. The second thing that I would say is make sure that you're hydrated.

Katie: And we're mostly many of us are not.

Lane: Not and not just with water. Like that's not it. It's really because I would say that most people who are in burnout have a mineral mineral again, going back to the minerals, a mineral imbalance, electrolytes are deficient. you know, there's too much drive with the cortisol, the HPA access is completely shut off, they're depleted. So make sure that you are taking in minerals in your water. I love the company Beam Minerals. fantastic company. I support what they do. I support their product. I've had miracles happen with clients with this product. So that's something that you could just take the beam minerals and drink your water. And tea is another thing. Like, not just drinking water all day, because again, you want to keep your electrolytes and your minerals in line. so after that. You know, again, we're trying to get nutrients into the body, small micro meals, which may seem counterintuitive, but you've got to get something into the body.

Katie: Yeah. Yeah, I mean to be honest, that's how I work. my I have found that my body works best with small meals versus with huge meals that I've waited hours in between.

Lane: Forget it. Yeah. A handful, like pumpkin seeds are one of my favorite go-tos when somebody's burnt out. Like just start with like a third of a cup of pumpkin seeds. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Just take a couple of them throughout the day and that's gonna give you some quick energy. The mineral, it's a high, you know, dense, nutrient dense mineral. It's yummy. Do that.

Katie: Okay. I'm gonna try that. Mm. that's beautiful. Well, so touching back on, you know, kind of what you just said of you know, about how everybody wants to be a meditation teacher or or is trying to be a yoga or mindfulness teacher, but then really at the top of the hour, you said that, hey, not everybody responds to that. And so I just think that that is really important to point out, is like we put all this pressure on ourselves to, you know, do meditation and to practice self-care in these very traditional ways, these very main ways. stream ways, but that doesn't necessarily work for everybody. And so your approach really starts with looking at their DNA. And so how do you do that? Do they like to take tests? Is there mm

Lane: Yeah. Yeah. There's a test that we use or that I I another company that I work with. and in that company I'm looking at like 160 different genes, single nucleotide polymorphisms, that are dedicated to the 36 pathways of the body. So I look at, you know, I'm not looking at one single gene. I'm looking at many and I'm looking at them through the whole body. Right. So it's multifaceted because we are multidimensional, right? Like we've I'm not just looking at one thing in a vacuum. I have to look at the whole body, the whole system to create a lifestyle plan.

Katie: That's so interesting. I just I think it's really cool because it's a whole body approach, right? And so a lot of us are out there and you know, maybe we do need some mental health, help, you know, for traumas that we've experienced, but a lot of us are out there just in a constant state of burnout, not really sure what to do or how to or how to get past feeling tired all the time, you know, or whatever it is, or or agitated, right? On on edge. You mentioned that earlier that, you know, like you were acting angry in a way that wasn't authentic to you. And I think a lot of people are feeling that. so this idea of this kind of whole body approach where it's not just nutrition, but it's also DNA, it's also mindfulness in whatever way that works best for you. I think is really powerful.

Lane: Yeah. And you know, this idea around mindfulness, peop people haven't like

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Lane: They they think they know what that is.

Katie: Okay, yeah.

Lane: And it's not meditation. You know, mindfulness is it's a it's a way of living, it's a way of life, it's a a way of moving through the world. And, you know, again, that it goes back to educating yourself. You know, really understanding like what is the practice that you want to do? Where do you want to go with your mental health? Because there's many, many, many paths to supporting yourself.

Katie: Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Lane: And mindfulness may not be your thing, right? Like maybe that's not where you're gonna go. Maybe it's internal family systems, like maybe right, like maybe that's the work that you need to do. Or maybe it's EMDR. That's the work that you need to do. Right. May there's many, again, many paths. Reiki, you could start having Reiki sessions to start moving that needle. So it's understanding again, working with a practitioner who can hear you. Who has the time to hear you and then uncovering what's the path that's gonna be the most supportive for you.

Katie: Yeah, absolutely. And you really can't do it alone. at the top of the hour in my bu in your bio I mentioned that you were diagnosed with an autoimmune disorder, so or diagnosis. Do you still have that diagnosis?

Lane: So it's in my file, you know. And a year ago I was diagnosed again with dysautonomia. I collapsed completely from overextension burnout. So I have a real soft spot for you know people who are facing burnout, people who have pots, people who completely have lost their equilibrium. Tinnitus is another kind of form that shows up with dysautonomia. Crone's irritable bowel system, like all of this dysautonomia, is this blanket of nervous system dysregulation. And when the autonomic nervous system fails you, right, you're flatlined because the autonomic nervous system runs your heart, right? It runs when you blink your eyes. It runs your digestion. And so do I have an immune condition? Right? That's the question that you're asking me. I don't think I have an immune condition anymore because what I've discovered through this last year of really doing some deep healing work is that going back to the mind body connection. The brain is so powerful. Right. This is the mental health part of it. It's like this is the part that I have had to really kind of go into. You know, this is like trauma work, right? The polyvagel theory had like all of this work over the last year to kind of unwind myself to say, I don't have an immune system issue anymore. I don't have a nervous system issue anymore. What I have is a brain that's neurocircuitry that's super powerful. Right. So I have unwound those stories now and I've put them to sleep, which has been incredible. This has been one of the like wildest years in my life, but it's also been the most rewarding because I I take this work into other people's lives in a whole new way. Which is I don't even that's life changing.

Katie: Mm-hmm. Mm, it is life-changing when you have that, yeah, that epiphany, in in so many ways. and you know what? I think it really just drives the point that, you know, your brain matters. Like we can look at our DNA, we can fix our nutrition, but if we're not taking active steps to also help our mind, then there's only so much our body can help make up. And and you've kind of pointed it out as you know, you hit rock bottom, you got up. You made some adjustments, you hit rock bottom again, you got up, you made some adjustments. And I think we all experience that and then we feel this like shame because we didn't figure it out the first time. But that's just not how it is to be human.

Lane: No. And the shame is you know, this really emotion that really can tear you apart. You know? it really just locks in. And so again, it just goes back to that idea of of finding somebody who you can unwind with and feel safe with to let go of that.

Katie: Yeah, it's that compassionate science. It's that personalized science. It's so, so needed in mental health treatment and in burnout, to be looking at both. you mentioned that you have students, so do you teach these practices?

Lane: Yeah. Yes. Yes. yeah, yeah, I do. Yeah.

Katie: That's amazing. So tell me more about if somebody wants to get involved and, you know, learning about this practices and, you know, learning more about DNA and or nutrition and how that works with, you know, with system regulation, how could they get involved?

Lane: Sure. So I teach online and I teach in person here in San Francisco. I do both. and I try to be as accessible as possible. I'm actually gonna be starting to work in some hospitals, which is gonna be really amazing. I work in companies, I work in the city of San Francisco, in all the organizations, all the government organizations here, the first responders. So all walks of life, everything can be found over at lane Kennedy dot com. my classes, the DNA work. I also have a Substack where, you know, that's again, it's I try to educate through my Substack and through LinkedIn. Just this is what's happening with the nervous system. so laneKennedy.com is where you can find everything though.

Katie: Beautiful. And you could find if somebody wanted to work with you too, they could also find information there.

Lane: yeah, yeah, of course. There's a button on there that says start here.

Katie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wonderful. I have just a couple more questions. At the top of the hour, you mentioned, you know, AI. and

Lane: Mm.

Katie: you know, maybe some of these negative effects are starting to show in some ways. And so I want to talk a little bit about that and about, you know, kind of the the future. AI isn't going anywhere, right? And so it's up to us as people, as a culture, to figure out how to manage that, ethically, which is a whole separate conversation. But then also within ourselves, and I think a lot of people feel that tension and that stress. Talk to me a little bit more about your opinions on that.

Lane: Yeah. AI, I have a love-hate relationship with it, honestly. You know, I just really do. Like it, it's almost like a falsehood. Yeah. I I have to work on it personally just to be like, don't it's not gonna eat my time because it becomes like a time warp. Like I think it's gonna save me time, but then I'm engaging with it even more. Yeah, and like I didn't, I didn't need to go down that rabbit hole. I don't really

Katie: Right. Right. Then you're going down some rabbit hole that you wouldn't have gone down. Yeah. Right.

Lane: Doesn't really matter. But I think people are starting to feel the effects. And we're only again like 18 months into it. And people are starting to want more in person. You know, people want to get offline. People want to connect, have deeper relationships. And you can't do that with AI. You can't have a therapeutic kind conversation with AI. You just can't.

Katie: Mm-hmm. Mm-mm. Right. As much as people try, you know, and that and that doesn't always lead to good results when they do. Yeah. It can be scary. Yeah.

Lane: Yeah, as much as people try. As much no. Yeah, I've heard some really scary stories about you know what AI has done with those personal relationship conversations. So I I, you know, use it with discernment, right? Like to use it with caution. use it as a tool. Yeah. Like if you're traveling, okay, let's use it for travel like that. But

Katie: Use it as a tool, but not as your life. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Would you say that we experienced this similar kind of tension when phones first came about that had the internet on them? Like it, you know, having like this at our fingertips, even without AI, I think that in itself has led to a lot of extra we just there's so much information, like that stress, it's it that's nervous nervous system dysregulation for me for sure.

Lane: A thousand percent. Yes, yes, and yes. So I think when we had the phone, that that the little scale, right? The scale went up, right? The line on the the mark. Facebook, right, Instagram, like each of these kind of social platforms, we've seen this kind of tick in dysregulation. I think AI has made it worse though.

Katie: Was a thing. Mm-hmm.

Lane: I do. I feel like it's just kinda kind like this. Like it was going, go and go, and now it's like Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Katie: That is really interesting and it is scary in some ways. It means that as, you know, humans, we need to be even more conscious of our brain-body connection, how conditions affect us. And so I want to leave with just one last question. I always like to ask my professionals this, and it's you know, if somebody were to come to you or just somebody in general is out there experiencing a chronic health condition or a chronic mental health challenge, right? You know, maybe chronic anxiety, right? Or even an autoimmune disorder. do you think that it's possible for them to get over that? Get over it? Or is it something that they need to continuously kind of work on?

Lane: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think they can get over it. I do. I do because A I've experienced it and I've seen it in my clients. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Katie: Yeah, because you just said that in this last year, your condition has evolved. It's no longer what it was. Now you are experiencing new things.

Lane: Yes. I think again, body mind connection is so powerful. And once you can understand if you can wrap your head around that like theme, right? That idea and start working on improving those neural connections, improving the way that you talk to yourself, your life will change. A thousand percent. Yeah.

Katie: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean it is remarkable how much your life can change if you just talk to yourself a little bit nicer. It's very true.

Lane: Well, we come into this world and we're immediately, you know

Katie: Yeah. No. Mm-hmm. No, don't do that.

Lane: told, you know, like, no, right? No. No. And and you know, then you're in, you know, k you know, like preschool and it's like, I have to go to the bathroom. No. You have to wear a diaper. No. Like, like, no.

Katie: No. It's a lot of unlearning. And I feel like you've done a lot of that. You've done a lot of learning and unlearning through your career.

Lane: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a great way to look at somebody's life is you know, what have they unlearned? Yeah.

Katie: Yeah. Mm, yeah. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for just coming to the show, for bringing your expertise, for letting us talk about stress. I mean, that's we're all feeling it. And I just think that it's important that we're open about it and that we're open that it doesn't always have to be this way, right? We don't have to live in a state of stress constantly. We can get out of that. And you're you know, you're a living example.

Lane: Nine. You yes, yes, we can all have better lives.

Katie: Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. for anybody out there who's listening and wants to learn more, go to lanekennedy.com and definitely tune in to us. We are alive with new shows on Wednesdays and check them all out at katierosewaechter.com. Thank you everyone for tuning in, and we'll see you next time!