WMH Season 4 Ep 15: Burnout, Perfectionism, and the Courage to Ask for Help
This is a transcript of Watching Mental Health Season 4, Episode 15 which you can watch and listen to here:
Katie Waechter: Hi everyone! And welcome to another episode of Watching Mental Health. And I am so excited because today we have on a true expert in her field who also is a local in Nevada. And Dr. Whitney Owen Owens is a licensed psychologist who specializes in evidence-based treatment with adults, couples, and families. And her areas of focus really include eating disorders, depression, anxiety, personality disorders, relational relational issues, and addictions.
And since arriving in Las Vegas in 2008, Dr. Owens has really become a leader and an innovator in the community here locally. And in addition to her work as a psych as a psychologist, Dr. Owens is also a yoga teacher and specially trained in teaching meditation and mindfulness skills. And so Dr. Owens really specializes in working with high-achieving professionals, including physicians and healthcare workers. And she's very passionate about improving our healthcare workforce.
Force and contributing to the care and treatment of physicians in Nevada, which is so important. And I think it's really valuable to talk about. And so today on Watching Mental Health, we're gonna talk about knowing when it's time to take a step back, take a step back and ask for help, especially in you know, ⁓ an industry where it can be very challenging to take those steps back. And so we're also gonna talk about the importance of caring for our healthcare workers here in Nevada, and you know, kind of what is in store or what we can do to help improve the future of the Nevada healthcare workforce as well as Nevada mental health in general, which is a big deal because I don't know, you know, how many of our listeners know, but we are at the bottom of a lot of lists, especially with mental health and also in healthcare in general. And so with that, I'm just so excited to welcome to the show, Dr. Whitney!
Dr. Whitney Owens: Thank you so much, Katie. And gosh, what a what a lovely introduction. It it's making me blush a little bit.
Katie: Well, I'm just, you know, it's really important to have, you know, people like you here in the state, in the city, who are, you know, actively talking about these issues that we have and not only helping to break down mental health stigma, but to also help to, you know, build up Nevada healthcare. And I think that both are really equally important. but before we get into any of that, I always like to start off first with asking my guests just to tell us a little bit about yourself and what brought you to the field of mental health.
Dr. Whitney: Yeah, so I in fifth grade I ⁓ had a like a job fair, a profession fair. and ⁓ I it's it's such it's such a telling story about me and how I end up ended up kind of working with people who are maladaptive perfectionists because I think in fifth grade ⁓ I met a psychologist and or maybe a psychiatrist, it's been a little while and I can't quite remember, but at that time thought I had to decide what I wanted to do with my life. And so from from that moment I said, okay, well I'm gonna I'm gonna be a psychiatrist or a psychologist. ⁓ and I had various experiences throughout my life that sort of shaped how ⁓ you know, how I came to be interested in mental health. My mom had some depression after my father died, and I saw her go through just the depths of depression in ways that ⁓ you know, was like, gosh, how I wish I could be helpful here. ⁓ I had a friend in eighth grade who had a pretty severe eating disorder, and ⁓ you know, as a as a kid not really knowing how how to help somebody through that really sort of shaped and really having a whole system of of people who didn't really know how to help her very well ⁓ really kind of made me feel like, gosh, the there's a way to do this. I don't know how to do this, but I want to know how to do this. And so, you know, from a very early age really felt passionate about mental health and wanting to be wanting to be in the field and and wanting to do this work.
Katie: That's beautiful. And I honestly like I really connect with that. I think something similar happened to me. I was, yeah, I was little. I was in, you know, the first, second grade and they asked, you know, what do you want to do when you grow up? And I said, I really I wanna help people. And part of it was I, you know, had been experiencing my mom who was going through the depths of depression at the time. And I wanted to help her, right? I wanted to make it better. And so it really set me up, I think the rest of my life and me wanting to be in the mental health space. So I really connect with that.
Dr. Whitney: Yeah, it's it's definitely those early childhood experiences sometimes that kind of shape shape how we how we come to be who we are. ⁓ one of the one of the things that was really interesting is after I finished all of my training, I I did all of my training in Chicago, and in the Chicagoland area where, you know, there there are a plentiful amount of mental health resources. ⁓ I think there's a there's a university on every block in Chicago that trains mental health providers both at the master's level and also the doctoral level. So you in t in terms of my training, there were there were lots and lots of places to go and to learn and to practice. And then after I finished my postdoc we moved out here to Nevada ⁓ because my husband had a good work opportunity. And so ⁓ I came to Nevada and within a few weeks ⁓ of you know looking around at what the mental health landscape was all I could tell my Chicago friends was I really moved to the Wild West and I really moved to the desert because of just the lack of resources, the lack of ⁓ availability of both jobs and mental health but also ⁓ you know, resources in mental health. So ⁓ it's moving here also really kind of bolstered my ⁓ both desire to be ⁓ a good psychologist but also like really being curious about workforce development, how to make our healthcare system better here in Nevada.
Katie: My gosh, yeah. And I was just gonna ask, you know, what is that difference between what you experienced in Chicago in in Nevada? And it it's it's jarring, it feels like. And I just think it's so interesting, you know, how you say there was also there were very little work opportunities as well as very little resources. And so it's like we definitely need to step up. And I do think in some ways we have attempted that. ⁓ our workforce development, I think especially, has come a long way in the last 20 years, ⁓ but we still have so, so much to go. So talk to me a little bit more about, you know, kind of what you've seen. You're you're 18 years into being a Nevada local. ⁓ so how have you seen it change or evolve in that time? And and what are some of the biggest differences that you've noticed from here and where you were in Chicago?
Dr. Whitney: Yeah.
So it has been 18 years since we've been here and and certainly 18 years ago there was there were a lot less resources. you know when I first moved to the state I got involved with the Nevada Psychological Association and at that time in the association we were we were sort of just tossing around just referral lists, just trying to figure out who's here and how do we, you know, how do we know who's doing what so that we have a you know, good referral basis. and so that's come a tremendous way where you know we have lots of ab ability to find resources in the area. ⁓ there there's a lot of grassroots kind of attempts at at being able to ⁓ connect mental health professionals. ⁓ and so so from from that standpoint I think a there there are a lot of organizations in Nevada who are passionate about this and are doing grassroots things, things as small as creating a Las Vegas therapist group on Facebook so that any mental health professional can join this and find other resources, whether it's referrals or whether it's you know, just knowing what other people do, knowing about trainings that are happening, ⁓ all the way up and you know, to really statewide initiatives like Be Here Nevada, which is run by the amazing Dr. Sarah Hunt, ⁓ and ⁓ the practice at UNLV with Dr. Michelle Paul. Some of these resources that were probably just a twinkle in someone eye someone's eye ten years ago are, you know, really helping our workforce in Nevada now. ⁓ And so I think we've come a tremendous way and we have a tremendous way to go. One of the things that's really interesting about that though is that you know, we we talk about being fifty first in the nation for mental health care and a lot of times people will say, Well, we we just don't have good mental health care in Nevada and that's just absolutely not true. We have some really incredible providers who are doing really good evidence based work and really really providing great service to the community. We don't have enough of that. we don't have enough providers to go around and we certainly don't have enough providers who can accept health insurance and who can ⁓ really meet the needs of people who need to use their health insurance for services.
Katie: Yeah, you're absolutely right. ⁓ we have great healthcare mental health professionals, but we don't have enough of them. And then oftentimes we don't know where they are. You know, we still have work to do on that list of, you know, of knowing who everybody is. It feels like we operate in a silo quite often. And I wonder if that's unique to the state of Nevada in healthcare, or if other states struggle with that same ⁓ you know, issue where we do it does feel very siloed across the healthcare space. Peace.
Dr. Whitney: Yeah. It's it's a really great question that I don't know the answer to. I mean, when I was doing my training in Chicago, ⁓ it didn't feel siloed in the same way that it feels here. I was a I was a baby blooming psychologist, so you know, I don't think I had any kind of wherewithal to know and to be curious about things like that at that point in time. But even as I, you know, I kind of connect with colleagues around the country, it it definitely feels like Nevada has some uniquenesses that some other states don't necessarily struggle with in terms of in terms of silos, in terms of really trying to create a lot more community working together towards the same goal. There's a there's a lot of people working towards a lot of things and sometimes there's some really great synergy and connection and then sometimes people seem to be just kind of in their own in their own space.
Katie: Yeah, that's so true. And you know, going into the legislative session, I think we're we're hoping that, you know, to make a difference in that to kinda bring more of the groups together locally and across the state. You mentioned Be Here Nevada is great and there are a lot of really great organizations. But yeah, it's definitely bringing them together, I think is, you know, what's important and then you know, continuing that workforce development as well as keeping our doctors and our healthcare professionals from burnout. And it that's such a big issue.
And you know, I do think that in some ways our workforce is aging and we're gonna run into a bigger problem, right, as we keep burning our folks out. So talk to me a little bit more about, you know, burnout in the healthcare space, especially because it your ex expertise seems to be a lot around this.
Dr. Whitney: Yeah, so I've become interested in in helping the helper since I started doing yoga because I realized you know through my own through my own experience with yoga, again I'm gonna tell on myself, I was I was in a yoga class once and I had to keep reminding myself because of my perfectionism, I had to keep reminding myself this is just a practice, this is just a practice. And I had a light bulb moment of saying, like, well, I have a private practice. I have a practice in psychology and reminding myself that that medicine and psychology and healthcare is all a practice. And sometimes we hold our our ⁓ physicians and our mental health professionals to this standard that's really really not realistic and not really helpful. ⁓
Katie: Right.
Dr. Whitney: And so, you know, I I could see it all around me of you know, I for myself, I got to a point where I was I think I was thirty years old and I was having back pain from sitting in my therapy chair and so yoga really sort of saved me from that of saying like, I just can't s have a job anymore where I sit all day and I was like, Okay, well I've I've figured out this hack of okay, like if I really do this good self care, ⁓ I can you know, I can really have more longevity in this career and then in 2020 I was contacted by like smack dab in the middle of the pandemic. I was contacted by ⁓ a psychologist in the northern region who asked if I wanted to be a part of the ⁓ Nevada Physicians Wellness Coalition. ⁓ and it was started in Reno, ⁓ up in the northern area to help ⁓ physicians who experience ⁓ thoughts of suicide, ⁓ to help them with their burnout and to really provide resources, mental health resources, to help with their burnout and their and and suicidal ideation. And through my conversations with some physicians on that board, you know, they I I just learned a lot about, you know, they were saying, like, listen, all of all of these systems can say, Hey, we want you to take care of yourself, we want you to to do self-care, we're gonna put a yoga room in the hospital, we're gonna put a you know, meditation room in the hospital, all of these things are lovely initiatives, but if we don't give people real work-life balance and we don't actually do what's needed, we're sort of just gaslighting people into saying, well, you're just not caring for yourself well enough and it's really on you. And so, you know, I really found my passion then to say, like this isn't this isn't an individual thing, and while we can do a lot of really great work in individual therapy,
Katie: Mm. Yeah.
Dr. Whitney: This really is more of a systemic problem when we don't have a fully fleshed out healthcare system. you know, how could we expect that our physicians and our nurses and our mental health professionals ⁓ are adequately taken care of so that they can take care of the community in the ways that they're very well trained to do?
Katie: Yeah. It's so true. You know, putting a yoga room into a hospital, but they have to work sixteen hour days is like not actually solving the problem. And I think a lot of us, you know, citizens, we don't realize the kind of stress that doctors and and healthcare professionals in general ⁓ experience. I think we saw like a little bit of that during the pandemic, right? But even here in Nevada, you know, our physicians and our mental health professionals have some of the worst reimbursement rates in the country. And so you're sitting here, you know, saying that you're stuck in your chair all day, and it's almost like we're putting them, our healthcare professionals, in a position where they have to be stuck in their chair all day in order to make ends meet.
Dr. Whitney: Yes. Yeah. I mean the the the the thing that's really interesting to me is as a psychologist, I can't schedule more than one person in an hour. ⁓ that's just not that's not the way my practice works. But physicians don't have that luxury. ⁓ they have to schedule, you know, four people every fifteen minutes in order to make sure that they have enough ⁓ you know, enough business coming through the door that they can their biller, they can pay their front office person, they can pay the rent on their, you know, on their building and they can really keep their practice going. and, you know, I I work with a lot of physicians and what I often hear is that, you know, the burnout comes from they've created they've created a practice, they've created a ⁓ you know they've created this whole kind of beast that now they have to keep running. And there's a lot of pressure to keep people employed, to keep people going, ⁓ to keep providing good care to their patients. And, you know, you have folks who went to medical school and were in school for ten to fifteen years, n none of which is teaching them how to run a business. but they're they're really great physicians who are also now on top of being a really great physician are also business owners. ⁓
Katie: Right. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Whitney: Employers and it's I mean it's a tremendous amount. it's a tremendous amount for them to be shouldering and you know, I think I think reimbursement rates, insurance reimbursement rates are a are a big a big thing. But then also all of the paperwork and bureaucracy that goes into that too ⁓ creates just a tremendous amount of burnout and frustration.
Katie: Yeah, absolutely. It's a it's a challenge. The the healthcare system across the country is a challenge. The healthcare system in Nevada specifically is a challenge. It it feels like such an upward, you know, mountain decline, but one that's so important. We we need healthcare. We we need these professionals in order to see our community continue to thrive, in order to properly serve our community, which we really haven't been able to do. We're we're so depleted in some areas. And so it it just really matters. That we I think give you know ⁓ we we give that moment of self-care and work-life balance so that way they can keep serving our community so for anybody who's out there you know who is a healthcare professional or who's listening or even just a perfectionist right like I I really relate with that like I I have this mindset where it's like if I'm not working then I'm like a lazy you know POS right like it's a it's a problem I think in our culture today and so for anyone who's maybe thinking or struggling, like w w what would you tell them, you know, if if they aren't sure, ⁓ when is it time to ask for help? When is it time to step back?
Dr. Whitney: Yeah, really great question, Katie. So, things that I think makes it hard to ask for help, specifically for like the physician population, is there still a culture of silence and a and a culture of I can do it all myself? And I think I don't think that's completely unique to physicians. I think that there are lots of folks in in in our population and our world who still feel like there's something ⁓ better about muscling through something or better about kind of pushing yourself. there's there's so much nuance to what I'm saying. It's always hard to be so very specific, but but I think there's there's there's nothing specifically better about doing it on your own. We weren't meant to do things on our own. ⁓ and sometimes, you know, what I hear a lot from a lot of my patients ⁓ is that you it's sort of like I have friends, I have people that I can go to, but it's so nice to have a place like therapy to be able to talk about things without really having to be too concerned about what the other how the other person's gonna react personally. and ⁓ I can talk about things, I can get a different perspective. with good evidence based care I can like get advice on things that actually work versus, you know, kind of our friends and family may not always have the the best advice. ⁓ so, you know, so I would say it's time to reach out for help anytime. ⁓ you have the thought maybe I should reach out for help. But it's especially important to reach out ⁓ when things that we normally do to manage our stress are no longer working. Things like, you know, maybe I'm I'm a runner and I go on runs all the time, I'm still running, and gosh, it's just not it's just not taking care of my stress the way it used to. or, you know, I used to be able to kind of tolerate a 40 hour work week and now like by Wednesday I'm burnt out and I don't want to go to work on Thursday and Friday. emotionally, if we're getting more frustrated more easily with people that we love when our you know, our our fuse tends to be a little bit shorter, ⁓ or if we start just noticing any kind of
Katie: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Whitney: What we would call like a functional impairment in any area of our life. So you know we we start maybe not doing as well ⁓ at work or we start not doing as well in our parenting or our relationships start to suffer. Those are those are some really surefire signs that ⁓ it's time to seek help.
Katie: Those are great, ⁓ great great signs. And I think that, you know, that point about burnout, that point about, you know, that short fuse, right? ⁓ all of that matters. And I always like to say, you know, reach out for help before you reach the crisis, right? It's gonna be so much easier to address whatever's going on. And ⁓ and I just hope that, you know, as we continue to do shows like this and we talk about mental health in the community, that you know, that stigma really comes down. We know that, hey, anytime I just want to talk to somebody, I can reach out to a therapist, right? It it doesn't have to be a major emergency. It doesn't have to be a big crisis. It can just be me needing to connect.
Dr. Whitney: Yeah, and it's and it's an interesting dialectic, if you will. but both are true, right? We do have a ⁓ a health care in healthcare system in Nevada that is ⁓ strapped. We we don't have enough providers. And also ⁓ it's important to reach out if you need help, right? So sometimes I'll hear from from people who say, well, like I really like didn't wanna reach out because I know there are probably people who need your time more than me and I don't want to waste your time because my problems maybe aren't that bad. and and I think I think we get into a little bit of ⁓ a little bit into a losing battle when we do wait until the last minute. There are some really cool things happening in terms of mental health ⁓ nationwide. So there are a lot of ⁓ Interstate compacts that allow ⁓ folks to tr to provide services into Nevada even if they don't live in Nevada. So Psychology has what we call SciPact, ⁓ which allows ⁓ people who are members of SciPact to see people in I think we're at forty three different states at this point. So
Katie: That's amazing.
Dr. Whitney: It's really incredible. So, you know, if if you feel like, gosh, I'm having a difficult time finding a provider in you know, in Nevada that I can see, ⁓ you know, if you go on, you know, on onto the interwebs and look, hey, like I really need somebody who can see me in Nevada, you there there are lots of people all around the country who can practice into Nevada. There's also ⁓ I think the social workers, I can't remember if that passed in the last legislative session for Nevada or not. I know that the counselors compact is coming up this legislative session. So there will be opportunities, ⁓ you know, moving forward to where even if you can't find somebody who's who's seated in Nevada, you can still find somebody who's licensed or able to practice into Nevada in a in a compact. ⁓ so going back to my dialectic, like it is true that we don't have enough providers to go around. And also it is okay for you to seek help and know that we have other other ways around the country that you can find somebody ⁓ to be helpful. So don't wait until it's too late. ⁓ there's definitely somebody who can see you.
Katie: Yeah, absolutely. That's great advice. And you know, everyone's worthy. And I think you're right, sometimes we get into that comparison game, you know, where I'm not I'm not worthy or I'm not good enough. ⁓ but it's important to connect. And you said that at the top of the hour. It's like, you know, we weren't born to be alone. You know, we need community, we need connection, and it really is is ⁓ a big deal. ⁓ so with that I'm gonna switch a little bit. I wanna talk a little bit more about your yoga and your mental.
Meditation expertise. I didn't mention it in the bio, but it seems like you're you have some sort of yoga certification or you you're a specialized yoga teacher. So tell me more about, you know, how yoga matters and impacts mental health. You touched on it a little bit, especially with perfectionism, but yoga and meditation, why that matters so much for mental health and why you you took that on.
Dr. Whitney: Yeah. So, like I said, I I started my yoga ⁓ practice, gosh, I don't know, fifteen years ago, sixteen years ago, because I was just having low back pain and I was like, I I can't have a career in psychology if I you know, if I'm in pain all the time. And so I just it really it really worked for me. I really enjoyed it and ⁓ I had a yoga teacher who said to me,
Katie: Can't sit through it. Yeah.
Dr. Whitney: You know, like you should do yoga teacher training and I said, I'm a psychologist, I don't need to do yoga teacher training. and then I kinda thought about it more and I said, Well, you know, it might be fun, it might be interesting. So I did a couple of trainings, fell in love and ⁓ started teaching teaching yoga and really enjoyed it. And, you know, one of the things I would always say, ⁓
Katie: What a minute.
Dr. Whitney: My students and also you know just in general is there are things that I learn on my mat about myself that I would never learn by talking about them because sometimes when we're moving our bodies or you know in yoga we learn like like there was a moment in a class where I was on my mat and I was fully expecting for the teacher to ⁓ call a pose next and she went with a different pose and I got frustrated and I noticed myself getting frustrated and I said you're not teaching the class. Like she's teaching the class. You you're the student. You don't have to do what she's suggesting, but you also getting mad at her for doing something different than what you expected is also a little banana pants. So so I I don't know that I would have learned that without having that mindful presence in my body in a way that really like facilitated for me at least that insight. And so, ⁓ it's always been something at least for me, that has has created a ability to have some mindfulness, to be embodied, to be present in my body in a way where I can learn and grow and yeah and and just do that. Plus, you know physical movement is essential for mental health. So ⁓ we don't have to do strenuous movement in order to have benefit for our mental health, but we do have to have some regular kinds of movement in order for our brain to be nice and healthy.
And so ⁓ I've really enjoyed that. And over the years, ⁓ I've had opportunities to teach different series, different mental health series, ⁓ and really ⁓ and really enjoy it. And I have ⁓ in the pandemic I did a a series for the Nevada Physician Wellness Coalition on trauma informed yoga. And ⁓ one of the participants in that, we became really good friends and I do a yoga retreat every year for she and her physician friends ⁓ on mental health and on ⁓ burnout and helping them kind of you know have a place where they come and they connect and also learn a bit and grow and it's just been a lovely, a lovely adventure. But I don't teach public classes anymore because I try to focus on my psychology practice, but I have such respect for you know, the yoga community and what it ⁓ you know, some of the kind of first level ⁓ access to people getting embodied and feeling good in their bodies that they create.
Katie: Yeah, that's so true. In many ways it can be a first level because it's not very invasive and you can, you know, do what your body is comfortable with and slowly move yourself forward. And so I just think that, you know, you're right. Like it movement is so important for your mental health. And you know, no matter how you're doing it, it's important to get out there. And it's also that form of self-care too. It's a way to step out of your mind and into your body and practice that life balance.
Dr. Whitney: Yeah, for sure. It's definitely something that I can tell in my own body and in my own mind if I've drifted too far away from my yoga practice I I get a little squirrely and it's it's it's something that ⁓ I continue to circle back to over and over and over again in my life is something that keeps me healthy and keeps me connected to my body.
Katie: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you feel it when you kind of get away from I think any of those self care practices. ⁓ so it's important I think for professionals, for healthcare ⁓ professionals, for anybody who's in a helping profession essentially to practice that helping on yourself. You can't pour it from an empty cup and you know, we've heard that, but it's like putting, you know, practice to paper is is what's what n we need to do.
Dr. Whitney: Yeah. Yeah. And and I often say like, you know, it doesn't it doesn't have to be yoga for you. It just has to be something where you feel like you can really connect to your body. So my husband doesn't love yoga. Try as I might, it's not his thing. ⁓ but he loves playing bass guitar and so anytime he's playing his bass guitar and playing music with friends,
He feels really connected to his body and he f he feels joy and he, you know, he it fills his cup and he loves it. And so, you know, while we're talking about yoga right now and I think yoga is the most amazing thing, like you just have to find your own thing that allows you to feel embodied and feel connected, ⁓ in a way that like helps you just feel good.
Katie: Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much. ⁓ for anybody who's listening and maybe is interested in working with you or learning more about your services, ⁓ what would be a good way for them to get in touch with you?
Dr. Whitney: Yeah, I'm a little old school in terms of in terms of how I run my practice. A good phone call is the way to go. ⁓ I know we're moving into an era where people are moving away from phone calls and really wanting to do a lot more emailing or texting. and so, you know, maybe one of these days I'll I'll I'll update that. But the phone call is the best way and and contacting my receptionist, ⁓ who can give you lots of information, give you lots of
Katie: I love it.
Dr. Whitney: If you know, i can collect a bit of information and if I'm a good fit for you, great. And if not, she's a wonderful resource, for being able to give other resources too, so that, you know, but my my biggest goal is that people get to the person that they need and get the help that they need even if I'm not in.
Katie: Yeah. Absolutely. I think that matters so much to have that resource list just in case. ⁓ and yeah, I mean, you know, that's what it is when it comes to therapy. It's oftentimes it's a relationship and you know, when my friends struggle and they're like, I think I should see a therapist, I always tell them it's okay if the first one doesn't work out. That doesn't mean you get to keep stopping to to stop trying, right? That that just means you have to keep going. And so I think that really, really matters. Do you accept insurance or you pay ⁓ you know ⁓ cash-based or are you both
Dr. Whitney: So I currently only accept out of pocket payment and then ⁓ there are some EIP benefits called Lyra ⁓ and I accept I accept Lyra benefits as well. ⁓ and I have lots of mixed feelings about it, Katie, about about doing that. But ⁓ one of the things that I decided ⁓ you know, probably seven years ago was that if I want to do what I'm very well trained to do and do it well, ⁓ I can't also manage a larger business that would be required in order to in order to accept insurance. And so I I have lots of a lots of mixed feelings ethically about that and personally about that, but I I've sort of settled on wanting to provide the best service I can ⁓ in the ways that work best for me.
Katie: Well I respect that and you know everybody has to especially here in Nevada I mean everybody has to get by and to figure out what works best for them and their practice and their family and how they can show up best in the community. ⁓ so you know yeah I I I also hope that as things evolve it'll get easier to access care via insurance but even right now you know with our parity laws being you know having problems again or coming back around in Nevada it's just such
It's such a challenge and so you know you have to do what works best for your patients and I think that that's a you know beautiful decision that you did.
Dr. Whitney: Well, thank you. And ⁓ you know, I think as I talk to my ⁓ Nevada colleagues, one of the things that I hear a lot from the folks who do accept insurance is that, you know, in in many other in many other jobs in many other businesses, ⁓ you wouldn't get into a relationship with another business who sometimes pays you, sometimes doesn't, sometimes says that they're gonna pay you a particular rate and then changes that route and sometimes says, Hey, we know that we paid you, but we're actually gonna take some of that money back because of a decision that we made without informing you. And so, you know, for healthcare providers, especially I think mental health care providers, like we work with our patients all the time on like getting into healthy relationships with people who they can trust and who they feel comfortable with and they feel like ⁓ you know, it's a good healthy relationship and when
Katie: Does it? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Whitney: Healthcare providers are in a relationship with companies who sometimes aren't ⁓ aren't the best partners. ⁓ it feels it feels a little out of value, ⁓ out of my own personal values, but I do always want people to be able to access services and so that's why I do a lot of, you know, a lot more of my service work with ⁓ with the Nevada Board of Psychology and and some other kinds of areas of service so that I can say, Well, ⁓ I'm contributing in ways to hopefully make help the system be better than than where I found it.
Katie: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Yeah. No, I mean exactly. Like I said, you have to kind of do you know what you have to do, especially here in this state, in order to to get by. And I think that, you know, taking the approach that you're taking is is very realistic and oftentimes even for us who have insurance we cannot get you know, we're still we'll st are we're still stuck on cash pay. I mean that happened to my husband and so it's it's an interesting system, but I know that we are still working at it and I know that you know you and I will we'll keep going and and to keep trying to improve the system and I'm just grateful that you're here, that you landed in Nevada, that you stayed in Nevada.
And that you're you know, really contributing ⁓ because we need it. We really need all of the great mental health professionals we can get here.
Dr. Whitney: Well, I appreciate Katie. Nevada means home to me. ⁓ it it really is, you know, I I I I joke about really repping Nevada but but even more Las Vegas. Las Vegas has really ⁓ been a home for me and you know, everywhere I go in the country and in the world and people ask where I'm from. I'm always very proud to say that I live in Las Vegas. I think we have one of the one of the most interesting, coolest communities in the world and ⁓ very proud to call it home.
Katie: Mm-hmm. Me too. Me too. I say the same thing. I love that. And people are excited when they hear we're from Las Vegas. So it's always a fun conversation.
Dr. Whitney: Yeah.
Katie: Well, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you to everyone who's tuned in and to listening to this episode. And we are ⁓ live with new episodes on Wednesdays, usually a couple Wednesdays out of the month. You can catch them at KatieRosewaechter.com, also on Spotify, Apple, and YouTube, wherever you listen to your podcast. So please check out all of our episodes and definitely give Dr. Owens a call and ⁓ if you are looking for assistance. And with that, we will see everybody next time. Thank you so much.
Dr. Whitney: Thank you, Katie.
